24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: dave brode On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:53 pm

All,

I have a small "gravity" wall mounted cabinet heater that heats my attatched garage that I'd like to zone off. The boiler room is under the garage, and I rarely need the cabinet heater. Currently, when I need a little more heat, I just crack the valves open a tad. Note that the rest of the house is heated by two hot water coils, and I pump the water 24/7. So, there would be nothing needed from the zone valve to control the pump.

Are 115v devices a bad idea? I've seen 115v zone valves a t-stats. I suppose that a 24v zone valve with a 24v transformer and 'stat would be better, and perhaps use less current [watts - which the meter sees].

Anyone care to give opinion? Thanks in advance

Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:25 pm

The beauty of the 24v devices and systems is that you can run small wire not much larger than a telephone wire. It mostly negates the need for conduit or romex. :)
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:28 pm

I always use 24v for controls & zone valves. As Scott said, cheap wire, easy to run, and simple.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy


Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:57 pm

I agree, cheaper wire for the 24v , and easy to pull small wire threw wall cavities. If you need to do 120, could (will) you use a 120v electric baseboard thermostat to the zone valve.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: dave brode On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:51 pm

Thanks for the input, Gents. I'll ponder a bit.

Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:55 pm

115 Volt thermostats are expensive, I have one on my garage Modine, along with a 115 Volt aquastat. Go 24volt if possible I have an unusual install.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:13 am

The 24 volt allows for it to run more devices.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:19 pm

Does your wall mounted cabinet heater have a blower motor, if so , were you going to do a 120v thermostat for the fan and zone valve ?
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:39 pm

It depends :D
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:44 pm

I vote for: Unless you NEED 120V, use 24V. They are cheaper, use less electricity, and if you have a short circuit, they throw less sparks.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: steamup On: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:22 pm

Also, 115 volt thermostats are poor control devices. Plus/Minus 1 deg F at best, sometimes it takes 2 deg. F. to actuate them.

24 volt thermostats are more available and more precise devices. Even the old style thermostats had heat anticipators in them that would help with more acurate control.

24 volt is my choice unless I am controlling a 110 volt fan directly such as for a garage unit heater where comfort is not a concern.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: dave brode On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:04 am

Gents,

Gravity cabinet, no fan. I agree that 24v is safer. Cost isn't a big issue, from what I've seen. I do like the idea of 24v though. Cost to run might be an issue, not sure. I'm not smart enough to figure how much current a 24v tranformer and zone valve would pull vs a 24v zonevalve though.

Thanks.
Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:52 am

ah, what you have is a convector. (Coil in a box).

If the piping is in parallel with a pumped zone, and you want to keep it simple, buy a self contained thermostatic zone valve. One with a remote sensing bulb would be better.
Mount it in the piping in the convector box .
No wiring involved.

They work ok if applied correctly.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Ther ... es-1524000
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: CoalUserWannabe On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:16 am

There are too many drunks answering, I thought I was bad !

24 volts is normally used simply where you expect better safety. in case the bare sections of the wires come in contact with the elements, and with your skin while working with it.

the power consumptions ( watts ) to energize a device is irrelevant of the voltage, with higher voltage you use less current, therefore a smaller diameter wire, and vice versa, ever wonder why your 12 volts starter cable is so huge on your lawnmower, compare to the electric start wires on a snow blower ?

So a good analogy to a part of your question is the following : " I have a snow blower with the option of installing an electric starter, should I use 110 volts one, or a 12 volt one ? "

Higher voltage is better for a farther distance . "That's why power is carried across country on high voltage wires "

The rest becomes availability, and what's practical, device cost is mostly based on production runs.

coaledsweat wrote:The 24 volt allows for it to run more devices.

Does that mean I can not turn on all my 110 Volts lights at home at the same time ?

Freddy wrote:I vote for: Unless you NEED 120V, use 24V. They are cheaper, use less electricity, and if you have a short circuit, they throw less sparks.


For the same amount of power output ( P=V*I ) 24 volts does not use less electricity, in fact it may use a tiny bit more !


steamup wrote:Also, 115 volt thermostats are poor control devices. Plus/Minus 1 deg F at best, sometimes it takes 2 deg. F. to actuate them.

24 volt thermostats are more available and more precise devices. Even the old style thermostats had heat anticipators in them that would help with more acurate control.

24 volt is my choice unless I am controlling a 110 volt fan directly such as for a garage unit heater where comfort is not a concern.



I guess you haven't been keeping up with what out there, there are plenty hi precision 110 volts digital thermostats , the Win 100 by LUX is one and it retails for under 50 Dollars
CoalUserWannabe
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kodiak

Re: 24volt vs 115volt zone valves and thermostats

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:59 pm

CoalUserWannabe wrote:There are too many drunks answering, I thought I was bad !

24 volts is normally used simply where you expect better safety. in case the bare sections of the wires come in contact with the elements, and with your skin while working with it.

the power consumptions ( watts ) to energize a device is irrelevant of the voltage, with higher voltage you use less current, therefore a smaller diameter wire, and vice versa, ever wonder why your 12 volts starter cable is so huge on your lawnmower, compare to the electric start wires on a snow blower ?

So a good analogy to a part of your question is the following : " I have a snow blower with the option of installing an electric starter, should I use 110 volts one, or a 12 volt one ? "

Higher voltage is better for a farther distance . "That's why power is carried across country on high voltage wires "

The rest becomes availability, and what's practical, device cost is mostly based on production runs.

coaledsweat wrote:The 24 volt allows for it to run more devices.

Does that mean I can not turn on all my 110 Volts lights at home at the same time ?

Freddy wrote:I vote for: Unless you NEED 120V, use 24V. They are cheaper, use less electricity, and if you have a short circuit, they throw less sparks.


For the same amount of power output ( P=V*I ) 24 volts does not use less electricity, in fact it may use a tiny bit more !


steamup wrote:Also, 115 volt thermostats are poor control devices. Plus/Minus 1 deg F at best, sometimes it takes 2 deg. F. to actuate them.

24 volt thermostats are more available and more precise devices. Even the old style thermostats had heat anticipators in them that would help with more acurate control.

24 volt is my choice unless I am controlling a 110 volt fan directly such as for a garage unit heater where comfort is not a concern.



I guess you haven't been keeping up with what out there, there are plenty hi precision 110 volts digital thermostats , the Win 100 by LUX is one and it retails for under 50 Dollars



All of this is not right. While you are pointing in the right direction, a conclusion I could draw would be that smaller wires should use higher voltage . In fact, it could also be concluded that it would be more power efficient to run higher voltage equipmet because it uses less power. And naturally, we should all think about using 120 starters on out lawnmowers because the wires feeding them would be smaller. :lol:

My analogy to your analogy would be something like,,,,,,,,,, a computor..... able to control many things with just a little transformer as a power supply. :) Stay warm
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck