gas flooding engine on generator

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:40 pm

Float bowl & floats. Shouldn't have a fuel pump if the tank is on top like most gens. They're just gravity fed.

EDIT: just re-read your post .... I guess you do have one. Strange ....

Fuel tank must be on the side or something? Never seen one like that before. The more I think about it .... dry bowl - full crankcase ... the 2 lines are backwards. Sounds like it's feeding the engine instead of the carb. One line should run to engine vacuum, one to the carb, and the last to the tank. Should be a mesh screen on the front too for atmospheric pressure - those usually get clogged w crap. Just spray that out w brake clean.
Last edited by SMITTY on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:45 pm

Like you said, the tank is on top, I am just going by the descriptor on the diagram, it's labeled a fuel pump. It is a white rectangular shape about 2" x 4", has a line from the tank, a line going to the carb and a line going to the engine. Don't know how the pumping action works, those are the only connections on the thing.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:47 pm

SMITTY wrote:Float bowl & floats. Shouldn't have a fuel pump if the tank is on top like most gens. They're just gravity fed.

EDIT: just re-read your post .... I guess you do have one. Strange ....

Fuel tank must be on the side or something? Never seen one like that before.

If fuel tank is on top, you should be able to remove fuel pump. Strange, there is one. Must be a generic engine, built for other purposes....
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice


Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Yeah that's a pump. Never seen one set up like that. I think the line that should be going to the carb is going to the breather. One should go to engine vacuum. Try sucking on that one in pulses with tthe other 2 disconnected & see if there's any flow.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:55 pm

I will post a couple pics tomorrow. can't find the link that i used earlier to get to the parts diagram.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:55 pm

If it allowed gasoline into crankcase before you ever did anything...the diaphragm in the fuel pump has failed. You did say 13 years old.
The vacuum side is separated from the gas side by the diaphragm...engine creates the pulses on the dry side and 2 tiny check valves on the wet side only allow the gas go in one direction...towards the carb.
And yes, you can either buy a fuel pump re-build kit or $$$ a replacement. :)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: Coalfire On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:30 am

009to090 wrote:
SMITTY wrote:Float bowl & floats. Shouldn't have a fuel pump if the tank is on top like most gens. They're just gravity fed.

EDIT: just re-read your post .... I guess you do have one. Strange ....

Fuel tank must be on the side or something? Never seen one like that before.

If fuel tank is on top, you should be able to remove fuel pump. Strange, there is one. Must be a generic engine, built for other purposes....



I agree remove the pump and get rid of it if this is the setup. Potentally this could run off a marine style fuel tank you would set next to the gen set, If you don't do that no reason for the pump.


Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: baddawg On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:05 am

Robert wrote:Added to my last post. The needle has a viton tip (Like a rubber) that goes bad and it is hard to tell when it does, this causes a bad seal between the needle and the carb body, if in doubt replace it. The bowls some times need to be leveled if you fool with them. If you get a carb kit fot that carb there will be instructions in the kit on how to level it. It is very simple.


I wouldn't use any carb cleaner on the VITON, I have seen it melt away with certain cleaners. maybe ethanol in the fuel may have started your problem? Do you use any additive in your gas?
baddawg
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Coalfire wrote:
009to090 wrote:
SMITTY wrote:Float bowl & floats. Shouldn't have a fuel pump if the tank is on top like most gens. They're just gravity fed.

EDIT: just re-read your post .... I guess you do have one. Strange ....

Fuel tank must be on the side or something? Never seen one like that before.

If fuel tank is on top, you should be able to remove fuel pump. Strange, there is one. Must be a generic engine, built for other purposes....



I agree remove the pump and get rid of it if this is the setup. Potentally this could run off a marine style fuel tank you would set next to the gen set, If you don't do that no reason for the pump.


Eric


Then again, maybe there would be some advantages to using a remote and larger capacity marine style fuel tank... :idea:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:20 pm

OK, the plan for today is to take the fuel pump out of the equation and feed the fuel line directly to the carb since the gas tank is on top and gravity will feed the gas to the bowl. If the gas still floods the engine, then I'll know the bowl is the issue.

One question, if it does work and I do leave it this way, what do I do with the line from the engine currently connected to the fuel pump?

Thanks....
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:35 pm

titleist1 wrote:One question, if it does work and I do leave it this way, what do I do with the line from the engine currently connected to the fuel pump?
Thanks....

That can be your crankcase breather hose. If there is not a breather hose already connected between the carb and the crank case, just route this old hose to the Down-wind side of the air filter.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:40 pm

There is a breather hose already from the crankcase to the carb. In fact that is where I first noticed the gas/oil mixture gushing out of when I gave the engine a pull to start it before tearing everything down after initially changing out the fuel lines.

So I can just leave the breather line that is currently going to the fuel pump open to atmosphere, but fastened up high on the engine so nothing drains out of it?

Thanks
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:53 pm

titleist1 wrote:how do you actuate the pump? it is a plastic rectangle that has three fuel lines connected to it. One from the tank, one to the carb and one to the engine. I was going to link to the parts diagram that shows it, but my link to that page expired, its asking for a dealer userid and password and I can't find the link I used to get to that page. If I find my way back there, I'll post it.

It is actuated by something inside the engine most likely. You need to remove it to see how the fuel makes its way into the motor. If it is a peristalic pump, the line may be split. If it is a mechanical pump, a diaphragm may have failed.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:00 pm

titleist1 wrote:. So I can just leave the breather line that is currently going to the fuel pump open to atmosphere, but fastened up high on the engine so nothing drains out of it?


If you have another crankcase breather hose already, then just plug it off some how to keep debris out.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: gas flooding engine on generator

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:53 pm

So far it appears to be a successful "fuelpumpectomy"! :dancing:

I drained the oil sump again to make sure I got all the oil/gas solution out. Then I ran the fuel line straight from the tank to the carb opened the fuel valve and waited for a little while. Opened the oil drain plug and there was nothing there!! Closed the drain plug and filled with oil. While I rerouted the breather tube coming from the crankcase I waited a little while longer to see if the oil level would start to rise from gas getting in there, but it stayed steady. Started it up on the third pull and let it run for about a minute before shutting it down and checking the oil level again. Looks like the level is holding steady, no gusher coming from the oil fill plug like yesterday!!

Started it again and let it run for about 5 minutes and everything checked out OK again after shutdown!

I have to run out for a couple hours, but I will try it again later and let it run longer if it checks out when I get back.

Many thanks for the guidance getting this thing fixed!! This forum rocks! :punk:
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite


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