Fire coming out the barometric damper

Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: NorthernIndiana On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:15 am

Neighbors wife just called. They burn anthracite and had fire coming out their barometric damer. They have one chimney venting two handfed Hitzers, one in the basement and one on the main floor both with baro dampers. She said the firebox was full of flames. I asked her if she had added new coal, and she hadn't. She said she was getting puffbacks as well. By the time I made it over there she had closed the draft regulators and the fire was looking much more tame. She had also opened the barometric damper and the room was full of CO, at least I was spinning. We took care of the CO issues and the fire is under control now. But what was going on? Any ideas? I've not seen anything like it.
NorthernIndiana
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine #4 Basement with Hopper, DS Machine 1300 Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 am

Sounds like creosote, have they been burning wood?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:31 am

Any chance one or both of the Hitzer's are Model 82's?

Firebox full of flames?? Sounds like the stove was out of control. If you forget the ash door open or add way too much fresh coal to the stove, it is possible to get the stove "huffing and puffing" as the gasses ignite and the inlet damper opens & closes.

Two stoves in one flue...a puffback in one of them could easily cause CO to leak out one or both barometric dampers.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy


Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: 009to090 On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:40 am

Any chance they burn wood also? Sounds like a creosote fire.... :?:
Or maybe it was a load of Bit....
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:46 am

NorthernIndiana wrote:the room was full of CO, at least I was spinning.


It sounds like there are no CO detectors. Shut the fire down & do not relight until at least one CO detector is in each room with a stove.

It sounds like the fire was allowed to run with an ash door open or in some way was allowed to get far too much air. And, I agree, two stoves into one flue....might work... should work?, but it's asking for odd things to happen. Certainly it's against code in most states.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: NorthernIndiana On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:52 am

I'm not sure what model they are. Both have hoppers. Shes amish and said she's spent her life burning coal and said she hadn't seen anything like it. I didn't ask if they had left the ash pan door open. Although I have seen them do that on occasion. They had one CO detector I brought them an extra detector for the basement. Some bituminous in the load might be possible, the inside of the firebox sure had alot of swirling ignited gas. Way more than I have ever see in my stove. As for wood, they use 2x4's to start their stove but other than that they just burn coal.
NorthernIndiana
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine #4 Basement with Hopper, DS Machine 1300 Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: NorthernIndiana On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:57 am

They also have MPD's installed between the baro and the chimney thimble. When I came over she had closed these off and with the baro open was effectively venting the stove into the room. I don't know what position these were in prior to my arrival. If you close down the flue too much can the gas burn off move up into the stove pipe?
NorthernIndiana
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine #4 Basement with Hopper, DS Machine 1300 Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:12 am

NorthernIndiana wrote:They also have MPD's installed between the baro and the chimney thimble.


Firstly they need to pick one or the other. The MPD holds gases back and that can back up back through the baro, really bad idea to have both.


-edit-

Matter of fact this is probably exactly what the problem is now that I think about it. The gases will follow the path of least resistance and if that path is through the baro that's where they are going to go.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: NorthernIndiana On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:43 am

Richard S. wrote:Matter of fact this is probably exactly what the problem is now that I think about it. The gases will follow the path of least resistance and if that path is through the baro that's where they are going to go.

I think you're probably right Richard. That could explain the puff backs, excess gas in the firebox and maybe even the fire out the baro. The gas just had no where to go. Is that Logical?

So dump the MPD's. Right.
NorthernIndiana
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine #4 Basement with Hopper, DS Machine 1300 Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:46 am

If both a baro and a manual damper are used the manual damper must go between the stove collar and the baro damper. The baro damper goes between the manual damper and the chimney thimble. The reason for this is the very problem stated in this thread.
Although I don't understand why anyone would want to have both installed. The baro damper can control the draft to the stove just fine, no manual damper needed.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:07 pm

NorthernIndiana wrote:They also have MPD's installed between the baro and the chimney thimble.


Image

:nono: That is unacceptable. What they are experiencing is exactly why you should not install an MPD between the chimney and a barometric draft control. They either need to put the MPD between the baro and the stove, or lose it altogether.

Sometimes I wonder what people were thinking when they installed their stove. :crazy:
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:34 pm

NorthernIndiana wrote: she's spent her life burning coal

Doesn't sound like it to me.
Having a stove pipe damper between baro and chimney thimble defeats the purpose of the baro.
Seems to me that someone left the ash pit door or primary draft open causing over-firing condition, then panicking and closing manual damper forcing combustion gases into the home and causing puffbacks/flames to shoot out around the edges of the baro (gasses in opposite direction would force baro gate to close).
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 pm

Being the owner of a hopper fed Hitzer, I would strongly suggest loseing the Baro & sticking with the MPD. Just an old farmers thoughts
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:52 pm

With a Hitzer stove, providing it has the thermostaticly controled draft door, you can throw the MPD away too. They make a pretty poor pancake griddle, and are just a place to catch flyash..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Fire coming out the barometric damper

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:54 pm

I didn't think the Amish tended towards being suicidal ???

Greg L

She's lucky their family hasn't had a serious CO accident or death !!
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland