Check My Math...

First a big thank you for all of the information I have garnered on this board in a very little time. A lot of smart folks, and seem to be very helpful also. OK enough butt kissin'.................
My wood fired insert Cat Converter has failed me for the last time 2 weeks ago. Started researching alternate heat sources 2 weeks ago. Coal was not a consideration then, now it is my choice of future heat. I hate lickin' a calf twice, so I hope to see if I am on the right track here for my insert and flu choices. If not, feel free to give a swift kick in the butt and let me know where I should be headed. I do not want to have to re- invest effort and cash into this upgrade if I do not have to.
The house is a 4000 sq ft modern construction farm house (circa 94, big rooms open vault ceiling in the great room, not much storage. no basement, lots of windows). Forced air propane, and soon to be coal insert. Insert sits in the middle of the house. I live in the Mountains of WV.
The insert I have settled on in the Hitzer 983. Seems big enough to do the job. I know that it is rated for 3000 sq ft, but as long as it heats the great room, everything else should be touched by warmth.
I am working with my heating folks to see if my 2 stage fan on my furnace can be set for low or med speed instead of high when I call for fan to distribute heat throughout the house. Should know something from them early next week.
I have a 32-34 ft flu 8x12 od tile,that is in good shape. One dealer says I do not need a liner, the other says I do for proper draft. I read all of the pages on liner inserts, and I am of the opinion that I do not need one. I plan to use a direct connect kit 8 in rnd to oval with a damper frame seal kit to connect the appliance to the flu ( part # ProTech RTA_8 w/ ck). I think that this is my best option for venting the stove.
I figure if it doesn't draft I can research options over the summer.
Any thoughts or considerations would be appreciated. I am totally new to the coal burning stove. This is a big investment late in the winter season, so even though I really need an alternate heat source relatively quickly, I do not want to make any mistakes on my purchase or installation.
Does this package look correct? Flu draft? Thoughts? Is the direct connect the proper choice for venting the appliance?
Once again, thank you all for the information on this forum. It has helped my decision making process immensely, and reduced my research, and increased my knowledge to formulate a good plan for future heat.

Heat loss study is the way to determine how much stove you need...
Not by the MFG sq ft it can heat...
That is a best case house set in the mid atlantic area...
Hitzer is a great stove...
The 983 insert does not have a hopper...
But the 503 does...
The rest of the plan sounds good...
Center chimney?..
If so it should draft well...

Go with the 503 hopper, much easier to operate with the hopper, less puff backs, less time spent messing with the stove, and less mess. Both stoves are 100000+ BTU and can heat 3000 sq ft. I think you will find most everybody here would lean in this direction.

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You're in WV ... planing on burning bituminous or anthracite?

Using your furnace blower to circulate air is a good idea. Remember that it's blowing cold air around so continuous use could make things a bit uncomfortable when it's really cold. You'll probably not need to run it continuously, just in the coldest times. I do, kind of. I leave my oil furnace thermostat set at 68* and it kicks on and off for several 4-5 minute cycles per hour. Minimizes fuel usage, keeps things kinda comfortable, I centrally humidify at the same time and the air I'm moving gets filtered. FYI, my stove is 50,000 BTU/hr and sales lit says 2,000 ft^2, I have 3,100 (circa 98).

Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate the time to check my research. Hopefully one day I'll be able to pass on my knowledge from experience. I sit here cringing as my propane furnace runs unchecked.

I am kinda stuck on the 983. For some reason the 503 just doesn't horn me up as much. I like the idea of being able to burn wood in a pinch.

As far as the fan goes, I am hoping to slow the fan call down to slow or med so it just idles along while moving air. hopefully just during the sleeping hours.

I plan on burning anthricite.

I am off to my Hitzer dealer today, Ill let you know how it goes.

Once again, Thanks for the input.

The Hitzer you are thinking to put in has an 8" flue. That means about a 50 in.sq. volume - recall the area of a circle is pi R squared... 4 squared is 16 times pi (3.14) give you that. Your existing flue is an 8 X 12 so that's about 96 square inches. I say about, because they are usually dimensionally larger inside than their nominal dimensions as stated. That's about twice the size that the hitzer needs. Where your flex oval stops in the chimney, you have a large increase in diameter hence your draft will decrease at that point. Now, you have an interior chimney so the temperature drop at that point won't be too bad probably, but that is why you have two different opinions on if to put in a liner or not. The installer that said put in a liner knows walking away from that job you'll have great draft with no problem. The other installer looks at it and says looks like it should work. They are both probably right.

But if it were my installation, I'd put in a liner and know without a doubt I'd have excellent draft. I'd know that even in the shoulder months when the temperature is not cold out, I'd still have good draft and can run my stove with no problems. In years past a lot of folk were converting fireplaces over to stoves and inserts, a fair number of them that just ran up past the mantel with the correct flex pipe had problems with draft. In your case from the description, you would probably be all right, but for me - I just wouldn't want the word probably in the equation when it comes to my stove. If the cost is a real problem and not putting in the liner would make it possible to do the install while putting in the liner would make it impossible, then I'd take the gamble, but otherwise - I'd put in a liner.

dj

I don't want to get off topic, but have you concidered a boiler or furnace in the basement. A properly sized boiler or furnace tied into your duct work would heat your entire house evenly, basement included,and all the DHW needed,if you have room or space for indoor coal storage and access for ash removal. Without any dirt and mess in the living space(what little there will be). A little more cost up front but your propane burner will never be needed unless you go away for periods of time.

Dennis wrote:I don't want to get off topic, but have you concidered a boiler or furnace in the basement. A properly sized boiler or furnace tied into your duct work would heat your entire house evenly, basement included,and all the DHW needed,if you have room or space for indoor coal storage and access for ash removal. Without any dirt and mess in the living space(what little there will be). A little more cost up front but your propane burner will never be needed unless you go away for periods of time.

I believe he mentioned no basement.

titleist1 wrote:

Dennis wrote:I don't want to get off topic, but have you concidered a boiler or furnace in the basement. A properly sized boiler or furnace tied into your duct work would heat your entire house evenly, basement included,and all the DHW needed,if you have room or space for indoor coal storage and access for ash removal. Without any dirt and mess in the living space(what little there will be). A little more cost up front but your propane burner will never be needed unless you go away for periods of time.

I believe he mentioned no basement.

My bad,maybe I need to read better. Anyway, is there any room to put a boiler or furnace next to propane burner. Much easier for years to come.

If I had a basement the whole scenario would be different. Had to excavate to get the old furnace out of the crawl space (found out they set the furnace before the floor) genius huh?
My Rinnai hot water heater is an exterior mount unit due to venting issues and code. Could not be mounted in that little space. I couldn't fathom putting a boiler or coal furnace down there. If I did though radiant heat flooring would be on the menu.

Ordered the 983 today. Should be here mid week next week. WOOT. I am hoping that I figured all of this out correctly. I will keep you all posted.

As far as the liner goes, it is a significant cost. I have about 30-45 days of cooler but not real cold weather ahead. It should be a good barometer as to weather or not I need a liner for draft. If I do I can do it over the summer, before the next burn season. But If my wood stove is any indicator of how much draft I have, I should be good. I'll have a report for you all here hopefully before long.

Once again, thanks for all of your input.

You missed one point when you say your wood stove drafted good, wood stack temp approx. 300* and coal 150*. Coal stack temps are much cooler so this will effect draft in a big way.

No, didn't miss it, that is why I was asking for opinions. I am hoping my guess is correct and I do not need a liner.

I was under the impression that the gas/ash from burning coal will deteriorate a metal chimney liner? Also with a non circular flue your effective area is less then the total area. Personally, I have a 8" output from my stove through a metal blockoff plate sealed to the lower edge of the damper assembly, through the damper of the original fireplace (pipe is squished into an oval to accomplish this), up through the firebox and then just into the bottom of the 8x12 tile flue. The chimney is on the exterior of the house and is about 25" from the basement to the top. I have no problems with draft even with warmer weather. From putting my setup all together I found the thing that affected the draft the most was a bad seal between the damper and the blockoff plate

OK here is the update.
Ordered my 983 on Saturday. Had to order it in Honeyglow Brown (if mama aint happy..........) and scheduled for installation on Friday. I am gonna give the insert a try without a liner. I am pretty sure that I am going to be OK. Hopefully Ill get some photos for y'all.
On a serious note, thank you once again, for all of your expertise and help. db