Advice about 125 PSI steam

Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: Short Bus On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:52 am

Advice on 120 psi steam.
Problem: Need some steam to run steam powered stuff for tourists.
Equipment I have: One 45 lb per hour underfeed Anchor stoker, about 330,000 BTU, and a 6X6 Steam engine

I want an ASME boiler with all the bells and safety whistles, and it looks like I have some choices in the used Dry Cleaner market, these boilers look like they could have a stoker put under them with some sucess. I currently have a heating boiler with horizontal tubes that requre lots of cleaning and that is the driving force in boiler selection.

These look like reasonable options that might not ash up to bad, any opinions.
I like the water tube designs but how will the fly ash clog them?
Some of the heat exchangers are on the second page of these files.
http://www.parkerboiler.com/pdf/brochur ... _steam.pdf
http://www.parkerboiler.com/pdf/brochur ... -BROCH.pdf
http://lattnerboiler.com/LattnerBoiler% ... ochure.pdf
http://www.thermosteam.com/catalog/vert ... oilers.pdf


I realize insurance is probalby a huge obstical, but starting with a ASME boiler we might have a reasonable start.
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:22 am

Lots of questions to ask yourself to even consider starting this project.

What are you trying to power? Do you just want to see a crosshead go back and forth and a flywheel go round and round or are you going to cut wood, spin a lathe, what? Steam has a lot of power and you don't necessarily need to get all the way to 125 psi unless your trying to drive a locomotive.
What is going to be your fuel and have you calculated what your makeup water usage will be?

Start with this before you move to the next steps.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310 this summer
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:26 am

Not only that but you might want to check with your State Office of Labor and Industry.There may be some rule or regulation when you get the public involved and/or near your equipment.There may even be specific rules when you go over 15# pressure. You will want to know all contingencies going into a project of this scope.Steam equipment is fascinating and a crowd pleaser but the equipment is expensive and requires careful maintenance so it is good policy to measure twice and cut once as you move forward. Mike
stovepipemike
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KAA-2

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:40 am

Anything over 15 psi is considered high pressure by boiler code.

Re-using a boiler will require a good deal of safety inspections.

This is not a DYI project. You will need to involve someone with alot of experience in steam.

Reciprocating engines are very inefficient. Under load they can suck a lot of steam. You need to start with power requirements and work backwards to determine boiler size.

A 330,000 input boiler is 10 input horsepower. By the time you go through the boiler efficiency, pipe losses and steam engine efficiency, you will be doing good to get out 1-2 horsepower.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: rockwood On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:29 am

Short Bus wrote:6X6 Steam engine

Would like to see some photos of that 8-)
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:33 am

Contact Factory Mutual or Hartford Steam Boiler before you spend a dime, you will go no where without an insurance carrier.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:29 pm

Short Bus wrote:Advice on 120 psi steam.
Problem: Need some steam to run steam powered stuff for tourists.
Equipment I have: One 45 lb per hour underfeed Anchor stoker, about 330,000 BTU, and a 6X6 Steam engine

I want an ASME boiler with all the bells and safety whistles, and it looks like I have some choices in the used Dry Cleaner market, these boilers look like they could have a stoker put under them with some sucess. I currently have a heating boiler with horizontal tubes that requre lots of cleaning and that is the driving force in boiler selection.

These look like reasonable options that might not ash up to bad, any opinions.
I like the water tube designs but how will the fly ash clog them?
Some of the heat exchangers are on the second page of these files.
http://www.parkerboiler.com/pdf/brochur ... _steam.pdf
http://www.parkerboiler.com/pdf/brochur ... -BROCH.pdf
http://lattnerboiler.com/LattnerBoiler% ... ochure.pdf
http://www.thermosteam.com/catalog/vert ... oilers.pdf


I realize insurance is probalby a huge obstical, but starting with a ASME boiler we might have a reasonable start.



The boilers I see you have listed here are steam generators, not a true boiler. They are designed for push-button fuels that require precise engineering matching of the burner input to heat exchanger. They do not have fire boxes that would work with solid fuels and any mismatch of capacity could result in castostrophic failure.

You need someone that will specialize in your requirement. boilers will probably start in the $20,000 range and up.

Take a look at this company- it is in Canada.



http://saskatoonboiler.com/about_our_products_4.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:53 pm

Take an old AA 130 and run it on low pressure steam < 15 PSI. Connect to an unpressured open steam hose and waste a little steam all over the place very impressive steam clouds but drives nothing. A little vintage steam whistle run on compressed air is also very noisy and impressive. Then take a leaf out of the Lancaster Counties (PA) Rough and Tumble annual show with lots of HUGE steam engines and run them on compressed air only. The idiots will never know. Yes, I kinda had this dream too and steamup crushed them with a little maths (mercifully) - listen to the man. This little wet dream (excuse the pun) of yours is a very expensive mistake. I have many such ideas and most are very stupid. Two years ago I saw the Mississippi paddle boat on the Hudson river----- cool, however, the ship Commander it is called, indeed thrashed a lot of water about with its huge paddle at the back but that wash was really just a 500HP diesel engine running underneath and my desire for one died. Oh well, another dream gone - count yourself lucky you got advice before crashing ahead.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 pm

If you are really serious about running the engine you have on steam, research the live steam hobby. There are specialty suppliers around.

The engine you have is fairly large for most of the hobby. Steam boat (launch size) people use engines around 3 x 4 or smaller.

Here is a company that makes boilers for the steam boat hobby.

http://www.tinypower.com/store.php?crn= ... =cat_click

Their largest boiler is too small for you. ($9600) The boilers come stripped. You still have to add insulation, piping, guages, controls, etc.

Don't forget about feedwater, chemcial treatment, load relief (what to do with steam once engine shuts down- usually pop saftey valve vented to safe location), etc.

Live steam and the public doesn't mix well and the insurance companies know it. All clubs I visit are usually low key and preach safety, safety, safety. They will have public invintational days occasonially and make very careful plans to deal with safety, safety, safety, safety safety, safety.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Advice about 125 PSI steam

PostBy: Short Bus On: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:37 pm

Rockwood,
Under to much snow at this time for pictures.
March 31 is the day the average high gets above 32 here.
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Visit Lehigh Anthracite