LL110K in the basement.

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:41 am

Hey Bill,

I actually ran the WL110K yesterday thru the night for the first time. I have the downstairs loop cut in working on cutting over the upstairs loop to the pump board.

I have issues with my back from hanging the pump board that has slowed me down. Doesn’t take much to flair up a herniated disk from 30 years ago. My son was helping me hang the pump board and I should have waited for my son in-law to arrive that morning to allow me to supervise. I was also working on building my coal bin which is completed.

This is my first intensive plumbing work and I feel the Pri/Sec layout is performing excellent with the downstairs loop tied in. I feel the upstairs loop will work just as well . I’ll post pics of work in progress and provide some pics that will show IR non contact temps off the pri/sec loop in future post.

I did go with the pri pump pumping away from the source not into the return……...just worked out better for me related to the install.

I would like to leave the pri pump running continuously I feel I will have better control/monitoring of boiler temps. I’m pleased with the WL110K so far. I have the feed set at 12 turns and the timer set for 54 sec on and 6 min off but further monitor and setup to follow.

These pic's do not show the SR503 pump controller mounted on the pump board and the down stairs loop cut into the pump board. More info upcoming in the nest couple of weeks.………………Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:23 pm

are you plumbing 2 boilers into the main primary loop? if so, are you also using closely spaced "T's" for seperation where each boiller joins into primary loop? And whats are you doing for flow control(flocheck) on secondary boiler? flo check location, circulator, return or feed for secondary boiler? thats primaraly what i am wanting to see. your exspansion tank is on a dead head leg it looks like.
wilder11354
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
Coal Size/Type: nut or pea, anthracite
Other Heating: crown oil boiler, backup.if needed

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:01 pm

Nice Job. Just make sure the PRV is piped away from the Aquastat as well. Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:19 pm

wilder11354 wrote:are you plumbing 2 boilers into the main primary loop?

That was how the project started out but I’m going to ball valve in the Tarm 502 in parallel with the WL110K. My Tarm 502 is an 82 install and it’s a PITA to shake down and hand feed. It will only be used as a supplemental heating source for whole house heat if the WL110K is off line. The WL110K fits the bill for me as the home primary heat source running on coal or oil.

wilder11354 wrote:And whats are you doing for flow control(flocheck)

All my Taco 007’s have no internal flow check. I went with
http://www.pexsupply.com/Webstone-52405-1-1-4-Full-Port-Brass-Isolator-Uni-Flange-Ball-Valve-w-Integral-Spring-Check%20%20for%20all%20pumps.
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


wilder11354 wrote:your exspansion tank is on a dead head leg it looks like.

It's installed as Yanche described his ET manifold setup regarding my expansion tank mounting question. http://nepacrossroads.com/about24584.html

I would lay out your system and submit to the SME’s on this forum for suggestions. I’m a rookie at this armed only with info from the many folks on this board and the only book in my library is Dan Holohan’s Pumpig Away and the many links I have accumulated related to install best practice.……….Dick
Last edited by dh1200s on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:28 pm

Flyer5 wrote:Nice Job. Just make sure the PRV is piped away from the Aquastat as well. Dave


Hey Dave, Yep I'm still completing the install. Did a quick fire up for a test run of the Pump Board design on the down stairs loop, I have work to complete.

Like the WL110K you and Matt have a winner in my eyes...........Dick
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement update 11/5

PostBy: dh1200s On: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:54 pm

An update on my slow install. I have been running on the WL110 since 10/23 no out fires a few dump zone events. I feel my DHW draw may offset that most of the time.

Cut in the upstairs loop last night only leaks to date were with two 1.25 ball valve stems that just needed to be tighten a bit.
I have not cut in the Tarm 202. I want to clean up 120 VAC wiring and thermostat wiring to the SR503 pump control before I plumb that in.

Right now with the big change from hand feed to stoker the Tarm may sit idle for a while ……. I really like the WL110 over the hand-fed Tarm boiler.

Pump board works great easy to purge loops and it seems to work as designed. I have been generating DHW since 10/23 and have had several lower thermostat calls to recharge the Rheem on high DHW calls i.e. back to back showers dish washer and laundry at the same time. Nice to see the 57 Watt draw of the Taco 003 back in service over lighting up the 4.5KW lower element in the Rheem.

I’ll put a pic of the layout of the Taco 003 plumbing layout thru the WL110 DHW coil. I use swing gates for isolation, I’m not sure this is best practice but it seems to work real well for me. I see a slight amount of ghost flow on the cold input side of that SG valve, I’ll keep an eye on this. If there is a better way to recharge the Rheem let me know. DHW sensing with the Rheem’s lower thermostat to turn on the Taco 003 just seemed a logical route to accomplish the goal. I saw a similar layout somewhere on this forum and copied the idea.

WL110 Settings;
HI limit 180
Low Limit 160
Feed screw 12 turns
Idle fire timer settings 30 sec on 4 min off.
Idle fan at max
Stoker at 10 o’clock position.
Draft around .04 on hi fire no base draft measurement yet.
Over all very pleased with this boiler………..Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement update 11/5

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:11 pm

dh1200s wrote:
WL110 Settings;
HI limit 180
Low Limit 160
Feed screw 12 turns
Idle fire timer settings 30 sec on 4 min off.
Idle fan at max
Stoker at 10 o’clock position.
Draft around .04 on hi fire no base draft measurement yet.
Over all very pleased with this boiler………..Dick



Are you seeing it dump during extended idle times or after a long recovery cycle calling for heat? What temp is the high limit astat set for?
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:39 am

Hi Dave,

The dump came after extended idle time.

I’m still working thru a L6006A High limit aquastat issue. The issue with that astat is I feel it is way off.

I feel the well is not air bound I have purged it multiple times and I installed forum member “Plumber” Hy Vent” retro ft off the left side port as seen in my previous pics. That was done before fire up.

The bulb is bottomed out in the well and when I saw the big discrepancy of boiler temp indicated by the L7224 (210F) and the trip point of the L6006 (140) I pulled the bulb out and coated with thermal compound reinstalled and no joy.

I need to pull that L6006 astat out and bench test at the kitchen range with my IR temp gun.

I have my LOVE TS2-10 protecting the boiler for Hi temp in the source nipple as see in my previous pics. You will see the LOVE TS-1 probe mounted horizontal in that 1.25 source tee. This set up is very accurate if the pri pump is circulating water in my pri loop. I read the temp from two IR Temp guns a company provided Fluke and my Raytech Mini Temp IR non contact temp gun and I see a 1.5 deg diff between the TS2-10 and both IR temp guns.

I do not have the primary loop pump on 24/7 it only runs on a call for heat so the temp monitored in that 1.25 T indicates low. I set the trip point for 170F on the LOVE TS2-10 and if remember the Temp indicated by the L7224 read 210F on the dump.

I was in the basement when the LOVE TS2-10 signaled my dump zone on via the SR503 pump control for the 1st floor loop. My house was running warm down stairs with the Harmon TLC 2K fired up so I knew it was not a call for heat form the 1st floor stat.

I don’t want to run the pri pump continuous to get accurate boiler temp reading for the Hi Temp astat. So for now what I plan on is to modify a well to accommodate the temp probe sensor for the LOVE TS2-10 in the left side 1.25 port that will get the temp sensor in deep enough for a more accurate monitor of boiler temp. I believe a WL110 owner has done that I need to find that post as see how that mod has worked out. At this point I feel it is the way to go.

I’m a rookie at this so if I’m in left field please point out the error in my troubleshooting and resolution direction.

What success have you, Matt and other users had with the L6006 mounted horizontal position in the source T? Do you run boiler water past the sensor bulb 24/7 or rely on static water temp migration to rise up to the bulb and trigger a Hi Temp dump?

Couple of pics of current HI Temp monitor setup.......wiring clean up in process.............Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: kstills On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:07 pm

dh1200s wrote:Hi Dave,

The dump came after extended idle time.

I’m still working thru a L6006A High limit aquastat issue. The issue with that astat is I feel it is way off.

I feel the well is not air bound I have purged it multiple times and I installed forum member “Plumber” Hy Vent” retro ft off the left side port as seen in my previous pics. That was done before fire up.

The bulb is bottomed out in the well and when I saw the big discrepancy of boiler temp indicated by the L7224 (210F) and the trip point of the L6006 (140) I pulled the bulb out and coated with thermal compound reinstalled and no joy.

I need to pull that L6006 astat out and bench test at the kitchen range with my IR temp gun.

I have my LOVE TS2-10 protecting the boiler for Hi temp in the source nipple as see in my previous pics. You will see the LOVE TS-1 probe mounted horizontal in that 1.25 source tee. This set up is very accurate if the pri pump is circulating water in my pri loop. I read the temp from two IR Temp guns a company provided Fluke and my Raytech Mini Temp IR non contact temp gun and I see a 1.5 deg diff between the TS2-10 and both IR temp guns.

I do not have the primary loop pump on 24/7 it only runs on a call for heat so the temp monitored in that 1.25 T indicates low. I set the trip point for 170F on the LOVE TS2-10 and if remember the Temp indicated by the L7224 read 210F on the dump.

I was in the basement when the LOVE TS2-10 signaled my dump zone on via the SR503 pump control for the 1st floor loop. My house was running warm down stairs with the Harmon TLC 2K fired up so I knew it was not a call for heat form the 1st floor stat.

I don’t want to run the pri pump continuous to get accurate boiler temp reading for the Hi Temp astat. So for now what I plan on is to modify a well to accommodate the temp probe sensor for the LOVE TS2-10 in the left side 1.25 port that will get the temp sensor in deep enough for a more accurate monitor of boiler temp. I believe a WL110 owner has done that I need to find that post as see how that mod has worked out. At this point I feel it is the way to go.

I’m a rookie at this so if I’m in left field please point out the error in my troubleshooting and resolution direction.

What success have you, Matt and other users had with the L6006 mounted horizontal position in the source T? Do you run boiler water past the sensor bulb 24/7 or rely on static water temp migration to rise up to the bulb and trigger a Hi Temp dump?

Couple of pics of current HI Temp monitor setup.......wiring clean up in process.............Dick


Hey there,

I have the 6006 mounted horizontally and before I was running a primary loop 24/7 it wasn't recording the temp very accurately at all. I had to set it ~30-40 degf lower in order to get it to kick on at the temp the 7224 was actually reading.

With the primary loop running, it works fine. I guess you don't want to do that, however having that primary loop has made my entire system work much better than it was.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:13 pm

Hello kstills

Yep roger that on running the pri loop pump 7/24 that would take care of the issue. I may have to do just that but I would like to try extending the temp sensor deeper in that left side port and see if that does the trick.

I remember a previous WL110K owner doing just that. Need to do find that post and PM him for a follow up.

I'll shut down the system and see if I can extend the well at some point. Till then I'm going to let it run with the Love TS2-10 temp switch in that the right 1.25 source port.

I'll post back down the road on what I come with.........Dick
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: jeff216410 On: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 am

Just something to check - the 4 minute "off" time seems a little short especially with this weather. There are a ton of factors like coal size/quality, draft etc that play into that, but in the cold I'm like 30 second on and 8-10 minutes off. My summer settings are a whole different ballgame, but in the cold I get away with a real long offtime. That will help with your dump zone kicking in, unless your dump zone is a part of the house you really don't mind heat in once in awhile. Also, I run my dump zone at (yikes) 240F from the summer but this time of year I never see boiler temps above 200ish with something always calling for heat (I have 5 heating zones) or a hot water demand. I also did see a variation in temps with the aquistat, analog gage, and dump zone control. My dump zone turns on at 10 degrees above the digital display aquistat temp. If the digital display says 249 the dump zone is going to run any moment (set at 240). My digital aquistat display usually reads about 5 degrees above the analog gage on the side of the boiler, but that changes when a zone of heat just ran. I had good luck tuning in the boiler and reducing high side overshoot by restricting flow through the zones (I have a valve on each zone). When my main house zone runs the first time it is just filling the pipes and radiators with hot water and that would run the boiler down to the cut out (170 low limit with a 10 degree differential) and it would continue down to as low as 120F because of the huge amount of cold water from the pipes and radiators. Restricting that flow helped a great deal. I had no idea how much a circulator could flow through a 3/4 pipe... I agree - If you're seeing huge temp differences like 210F control versus 140F dump zone I would check the thing in boiling water.
jeff216410
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Liesure Line Hearth

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:26 pm

the 4 minute "off" time seems a little short especially with this weather


I had been running 1 min on 8 off wanted to give the 30 sec on/4 min off timing a try. I'm new on the learning curve with this boiler and a dump from time to time in the winter is no biggie. I will pull that L6006A and check it out with a pot of boiling water and see where it's trip point is.

I do like the extended burn times of this boiler over my hand fed......dick
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: jeff216410 On: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:59 am

It's a good idea to try the different combinations of on and off times to see how it behaves. That's the only way you will figure it out. I too started with the dump zone setting around 210F and tried 220 and so on and ended up leaving it on 240, mainly for the summer for the extended times of no hot water or heat demand. I was getting stuck in a sequence where the dump zone would kick in, cool the boiler below the low limit, crank up the fire, hit the drmp zone and so on again and again.... Raising the dump zone temp and increasing the "off" time helped keep me out of that.

I've been running rice coal that is a bit on the large side for rice which does not help the situation.

When you mentioned purge I was not sure if you were purging your loops or actuating the pressure blow off near to the L6006A. My setup looks almost identical to yours coming off the boiler. To help get air out I would blow a little water out of the pressure blow off valve once a day for a few days. I had good luck with a Spirovent for pulling any leftover air out of the rest of the system while it is running.
jeff216410
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Liesure Line Hearth

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:47 pm

Hey Jeff,

It's a good idea to try the different combinations of on and off times to see how it behaves.


I set the boiler up as Matt discussed in this thread http://nepacrossroads.com/about22085-90.html

I have only tried 1 min on 8 off and the boiler worked well

The 30 sec on 4 min off seems to be working fine when I dump the ash bucket tomorrow I will check out for unburnt coal.

Under Matt's and Dave's set up discussion I seem to have about 1" of ash at the end of grate see pic for Apex of burn. So I feel Hi Fire is OK maybe back off from 12 turns to 11 I was at 13 two days ago and I saw some unburnt coal.

I too started with the dump zone setting around 210F and tried 220 and so on and ended up leaving it on 240, mainly for the summer for the extended times of no hot water or heat demand. I was getting stuck in a sequence where the dump zone would kick in, cool the boiler below the low limit, crank up the fire, hit the dump zone and so on again and again.... Raising the dump zone temp and increasing the "off" time helped keep me out of that.


I feel my L6006 high limit is way off on Sunday I'm going to check this out right now the Love TS2-10 is monitoring off the Source T as shown. I pulled that digital temp switch off my Tarm boiler.

When there is a call for heat and the boiler/zone settle down I see a 4deg F diff between the TS2-10 and the L7224C I dont pay attention to the analog temp gauge it's bit off. I'm burning rice from Country Meadows in Lancaster, PA. I believe Jane at CM said the coal came from S&T and both Nut for the hand fed appliances and the rice burn well no clinkers out of the WL110K or the nut burners.


I''m not hung up on any of this I like the boiler big time over the Tarm 202 hand fed I just want to get the L6006 to read a bit more accurate and I don't want to run the primary loop to achieve better accuracy of boiler temp.......guess I'm hung up on that.

When you mentioned purge I was not sure if you were purging your loops or actuating the pressure blow off near to the L6006A.


Yep left side port with forum member Plumber mod as seen in pic below. As I mentioned in my previous post I feel that 1.25 left side port/well is not air bound.

Anyway I'm very pleased with the boiler, plenty of DHW (50 Gal) with the Rheem and recharge ckt..........and I'm having some fun installing and learning about my system, my Pri/Sec Pump board works like a champ. I'm using Taco 1.25 scoop and Duovent Air Vents and will have the 1" recovered Taco air scoop/Duovent set up on the Tarm boiler once that is plumbed back in parallel with the WL110. The blue painters tape is to get a better reading with the IR temp gun.

I'll post some final pics once I clean up my wiring...........Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: LL110K in the basement.

PostBy: kstills On: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:51 pm

dh1200s wrote:
the 4 minute "off" time seems a little short especially with this weather


I had been running 1 min on 8 off wanted to give the 30 sec on/4 min off timing a try. I'm new on the learning curve with this boiler and a dump from time to time in the winter is no biggie. I will pull that L6006A and check it out with a pot of boiling water and see where it's trip point is.

I do like the extended burn times of this boiler over my hand fed......dick


I'm around this time also. I couldn't get anything to work with a shorter cycle, and ended up with a very long delay and very short run time.

Even with this long a delay last winter, I would hit the dump zone limit on occasion. With the primary piped in and running, I don't go more than a few degrees over the LL.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

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