smart meters

Re: smart meters

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:16 pm

I love my smart meter.
I don't have to read it anymore.

My power company charged $25 to come out and read it if you forgot.




Ya I forgot a few times....
cArNaGe
 

Re: smart meters

PostBy: rockwood On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:34 pm

Hey Greg,

On long distribution lines, voltage regulators are often needed. These regulators automatically step-up or step-down as voltage changes and I suspect that's what is needed and since you are at the end of the line you will have the most trouble.
Many years ago I went with my dad (he worked for power co) to a rural area to investigate voltage fluctuations that were happening on a long distribution line. They were experiencing exactly the same thing you are and the power co ended up putting in a bank of regulator transformers about mid way along the distribution circuit.
Do you know how far away from the substation you are?

Have your neighbors start complaining and tell the power co they need a regulator bank installed somewhere along the line to compensate for voltage fluctuations....they'll know that you're on to them.. ;) :)

This link shows a photo of a regulator bank.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... vns&itbs=1
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:54 pm

Greg, have you looked through your usage history to see if your KW consumption has stayed the same?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy


Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:31 am

That's the problem, the meter is reading 'ghost' KW's.. all of a sudden with the new meter I'm using 40% more KW's.. and everything is the same.. no new
A/C units. no new radios or TV's, no additional time in the shop..
I swear I could flip the main breaker on the whole farm, and the damned meter would still be turning.

Rob R. wrote:Greg, have you looked through your usage history to see if your KW consumption has stayed the same?



Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:23 am

So when you look at your bill are the total number of KWH the same (YOY) and are the other charges the same? In NY you have to be careful. The barn was a second meter and they used to charge as a business and peak load was factored in. I would look at the things I mentioned. I ran a 100 amp in ground service to the barn directly and bypassed the barn meter and the same amount of power cost me at least $200 a month less and that was then. TOU is also definitely helping me more now. So when you are envious of three phase power I ask do you run big motors? Are loads well balanced?
coalnewbie
 
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:28 pm

I have only one meter,
From the main load panel I feed underground to two different barns.. one has nothing but a few outlets and a few lights.. and all are off, I trip that main feed breaker so that some damned raccoon or possum or mouse won't chew into a wire and burn the thing down,, and my house which is 60' across the driveway.

The other barn, the white shop, is also fed with underground wires, This barn is my workshop.. I do occasionally run the air compressor, but make note of it, and the arc welder, run the hoists up and down.. etc.. but on the months that I have a project going in the shop, I expect to see $20-30 more on the elec bill.

The majority of people who pay attention, have noted higher bills with no changes in use..

It's a rip off.

I'm thinking on turning off the main breaker, and run the genset 50% of the time and see if the KW use drops accordingly.. I'll bet it doesn't.

Just another example of the sheeple being used and abused..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
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Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:30 pm

Can you 'opt out' and request that a traditional meter be installed?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:47 pm

Greg, how many KWH do you use per month this time of year?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: smart meters

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:08 pm

You might have a leaky conductor...
It will spin the meter just as any load would...
And you get charged for it...
Had a few issues like you have the higher readings...
And they were power going to ground...
Not a short that pops a breaker...
CapeCoaler
 
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:26 pm

lsayre wrote:an you 'opt out' and request that a traditional meter be installed?


Around here if you "opt out" they charge a hefty fee to come read the meter...and they will not allow you to read it.

In CA a huge number of people saw big increases in their electric bills after the smart meters were installed. Sadly, the electric company proved that the old meters were reading low.
Freddy
 
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:45 pm

LsFarm wrote:I have only one meter,

The majority of people who pay attention, have noted higher bills with no changes in use..

It's a rip off.

I'm thinking on turning off the main breaker, and run the genset 50% of the time and see if the KW use drops accordingly.. I'll bet it doesn't.

Greg L

I suspect the "smart meters" measure true power, that is both the resistive and reactive power. Your old spinning wheel power meter can only measure resistive (power factor = 1). If you have any power factor lower than unity and you measure consumed power the way an electrical engineer would greater than that measured by a "old" power meter.

So you may have a significantly less then unity power factor (high inductive loads, motors, welders, improperly used transformers, etc.) You didn't pay for this reactive load because your power company couldn't measure it, at least not for a residential customer. It did and does cost the power company money to produce this reactive power. Now, because of an improved measurement meter you are likely being charged for it. OR perhaps the old meter was just inaccurate (unlikely) and recording low. OR the new meter is also inaccurate (very unlikely) and recording high.

It will take considerable effort to get a technical and regulatory understanding of the situation.

1. Since power companies are regulated utilities, your state will have some published residential rate schedule. Get that schedule from the commission or agency that regulates them. Get the technical specs as to what power they are measuring and allowed to charge for. In my state the residential rate schedule only allows resistive power measurement. It may have changed with the introduction of "smart meters".

2. Research you specific brand and model of smart meter. Get this info from the meter manufacturer. It will not be the power company. Determine the options for configuring the "smart" meter. I suspect most are general purpose designs and have lots of configurable options. You need to know how your electric company uses it.

3. Measure your power load and power factor.

4. Ask the power company for your usage record both pre and post "smart meter". You may have to your regulated utility agency involved to get this.

5. Challenge the power company on the accuracy of the "smart meter". Insist on the "manufacture's" calibration acceptance data. You will need to get to know the utility company's engineering department for this information.

6. If you have low power factor most of the time, install commercial grade load compensation capacitors.

OR just take the easy way out and just pay the bill.

IF you have low power factor and run your generator you will also be generating the reactive power you can't use (i.e. no useful physics work).
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:56 pm

I've had one for quite awhile, if the power goes out they can tell pretty much exactly where it's at, never noticed any difference in usage or charges.
samhill
 
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:26 pm

There is more to this than billing, new appliances will have chips in them that will talk to the meter.When the power company needs to cut the load they might just turn off your stuff, and just when you need it.
grumpy
 

Re: smart meters

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:40 pm

Ya gotta love coal college, every day you get up and learn something from this board. :)
coalnewbie
 
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Re: smart meters

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:50 pm

Oh noooo, not my stuff. As it stands, I go out & talk to my meter every week. Might be why me BILL stays around $60.00 a month. :clap: toothy :blowup:
grumpy wrote:There is more to this than billing, new appliances will have chips in them that will talk to the meter.When the power company needs to cut the load they might just turn off your stuff, and just when you need it.
freetown fred
 
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