smart meters

Re: smart meters

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:42 am

lsayre wrote:Another popular use for them is to assess the potential for just who might be running a small business out of their home in an area where such is not permitted due to zoning restrictions. The ultimate name of the game for smart meters is control.

The ultimate name of the game for PCs, 25 years ago, was a conspiracy of business owners to install word processing software and thereby reduce the number of typists they had to pay. Or not -- maybe computers were just a better idea all around.

The conspiracy theory for smart meters implies that power company management sat down and said, "How can we spy on our customers and sell the information to law enforcement?" Somehow I don't think that is an essential profit-making goal in electric utilities' business plans. Maybe smart meters are just a better idea all around.

Even from the perspective of law enforcement agencies, doing an illegal blanket survey of utility records would turn up so many false positives they would be swamped with "leads" that lead nowhere. It is an unfortunate fact of modern life, that most of us leave a detailed electronic record of what we do. Maybe there should be laws requiring such records to be erased after a few months, and making them inadmissible in court.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:58 am

Well Fred,, if you suddenly had your $60 per month bill go to $90-$100, and you did nothing to cause the increase, and you noticed that the meter was now a 'smart' meter..
I think you'd change your tune..
I've been a good consumer,, my electric bill at the farm has almost never been under $90, and now it's $200, and I'm not heating a damned hot tub with electricity, or growing 'plants' in the basement.

I want this rippoff meter gone !!

For the first time in 14 years I've turned off my night barnyard light on the pole.. to save electricity.. If my place gets broken into because it nolonger is illuminated at night,, I'm gonna go balistic.

I'm being pushed to my limits..

Greg



freetown fred wrote:How many honest, reputable people are running a large enough business in an area where you shouldn't be that would be using a noticeable increase on KW hrs.??? Come on, let's be realistic. Like stated, any meter will pick up usage.Sooo, lets add paranoia to gloom & doom :(
lsayre wrote:Another popular use for them is to assess the potential for just who might be running a small business out of their home in an area where such is not permitted due to zoning restrictions. The ultimate name of the game for smart meters is control.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: 009to090 On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:19 am

LsFarm wrote:I think my smart meter is about to become faulty.

I accidently broke the glass on mine, while filling my coal bin with the loader. They came out and replaced it quickly. :idea:

These meters are either measuring Reactive load now, or they are being programmed to add X percentage to compensate for the Reactive load they cannot measure. Gotta read up on your model.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice


Re: smart meters

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:23 am

LsFarm wrote: wrote:I think my smart meter is about to become faulty.


Did you say the brakes were "hit or miss" on that big loader? ;)
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: smart meters

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:24 am

009to090 wrote:I accidently broke the glass on mine, while filling my coal bin with the loader. They came out and replaced it quickly.


My cousin did a fine job on our meter while test driving a new zero turn with the roll bar up. He made sure the deck cleared the pole, but the roll bar sheared off the meter. :D
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: smart meters

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 am

It is not the Smart Meter by itself that people get paranoid about it is the HAN...
All the stuff in the house talking back to the power company and then getting out into the wild...
The power company needs to trim some power on a summer day so they hit the 'button' and all the 'smart AC' units stop making cold air...
Well you pay a lower rate for that so...
Linking of various databases is the true danger...
Then 'they' will have a very good picture of what you do...
The solution...
don't give out the info...
Use cash, avoid reward cards and dont use social media...
And relax the amount of data is so overwhelming...
But the tech will evolve...
Where is that tinfoil...
The contrary view is that kids will start hacking this stuff so bad that the data will be useless...
Or a solar flare will take us back to 1920...
Whatever...
Check into the load thing...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: smart meters

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:53 am

Those meters must be really smart to know which circuit breaker to turn off for which appliance, that's why I always try & buy everything American Made, nobody understands plain English any more. ;)
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: smart meters

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:18 pm

They talk to the device...
Not the breaker...
Needs the power to 'phone home' and wake up...
So the high powered items will get chipped first...
Water heaters, Electric heat units and AC units...
Then 'they' would send the signal to the device to go sleepy for a period of time...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: smart meters

PostBy: grumpy On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:26 pm

grumpy
 

Re: smart meters

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:42 pm

CC, wouldn't you have to have a device that was bought & installed by your power co., most everything I have is as old as the house 15 years & my smart meter is only around two & wasn't even developed back then. Now my power co. will sell one of those instant water heaters in certain areas, maybe they don't like well water & complain to the meter too much. I would take a wild guess & think that the meter does more for pin pointing problems (as outages) & determining peak periods in certain areas more than trying to spy on people just my opinion. Been wrong be for & will be again, I did notice that my new fridge keeps moving a bit towards the window trying to peak at their new freezer. :inlove:
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:04 pm

Why would the power companies spend millions of dollars to swap out with new meters, trash the old meters, set up a wireless system to monitor home electric use? the ONLY reason that makes sense is that they can sell the tidbits of info to other consumer-related marketers. And maybe tie into the police and monitor what you are doing
this is just more big brother stuff.

Will someone find a link to this resistive vs reactive crap?? I understand a load, a resistance, causing a amperage or current to be created, and multiply this times the voltage, times the number of hours and come up with KWH.. but what the FFFFK is reactive??

Do I need to rearange my steady loads, like my freezers, the refridgerator etc on the two 110v leads so that each side of the incoming 220 is equally loaded on average?? is this what you are talking about??

So I need to measure the load on each FFDDKKing breaker in my box and then unclip 'em and make sure they are loading both sides of the 220 eaqually??

A 30.06 round through the meter is sounding more and more attractive. I think about the amount of money the power company has taken from me over the last 50 years.. and I just spiral into the stratosphere..

It's not like I can choose to have a smart meter, or not.. or choose to have DTE instead or Consumers Power, or XYZ power company,, I'm trapped into having this rippoff, poorly maintained, low voltage crappy run company that won't trim trees, won't hook up new transformers, but gladly charge me more for my service, even though I've changed nothing in my energy use over the last three years..

I understood the bills going up while all the saws an drills were running while the house was being rebuilt.. and I also expect to pay for using the aircompressor and the lifts in the shop,, I factor that in when I quote a job..
And I closely watched the KWH use when I brought my new kitchen online but NOTHING makes sense but the FSSJJG meter is reading 'ghost' KW's.

I wonder how long it will take for them to come and 'inspect' my meter if I shield it with lead and foil???

When the power goes out, what $$$#%$#$^ difference does it make if the power company knows in say 15 seconds,, or 15 minutes that the power is out?? Do you think they don't know from the substations' load dropping?? When it takes on average 16 hours to fix a power outage what the hell difference is 15 minutes??

Just get me my standard meter back.. the one that gives me $120 dollar monthly bills..

This raditaion is making me grumpy.. and oh hell neverming.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:17 pm

Greg, I suggest calling your power company and insist that they remove the smart meter and replace it with a standard meter.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: smart meters

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:21 pm

Would there be a way to attach another meter to check on the first, perhaps run by induction?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: smart meters

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:01 pm

LsFarm wrote:I think about the amount of money the power company has taken from me over the last 50 years.. and I just spiral into the stratosphere...
This raditaion is making me grumpy ...

You have always sounded pretty sane, now I'm wondering if we will be reading about you in the national news --
Michigan man barricades self in electric substation, demands ransom of old-style power meter. "If I go down, this big mutha-fk'in transformer is going down with me!", he tells meter reader. "He always seemed so nice," neighbors report.

Well, I can make fun, but I'm sure I would feel the same way if my bill jumped like yours along with such lousy service.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: smart meters

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:29 pm

Here is a start...
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/1.html
I am no EE and I think that it would take an EE to make sense of this...
Like load balancing and the joys of 3 phase being more efficient...
The meter is just reflecting the true cost of electric...
As you use less of it they must better charge you the true cost...
Just like they breakout all the distrubution, tax, enviromental, inverse upfront rebate of future charges :?...
And all the other crap on the bill...
The smart Meter does save the company the labor cost to look at a Dumb Meter...
Soon they will eliminate the drive around person when the Smart Meter can send in usage data to the main office...
Silly humans are expensive, replace them with a machine... :P
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove