smart meters

smart meters

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:49 pm

Things are changing in some areas, if you have one you may now be able to opt out. If you don't have one send a letter of denied consent, it may pay off in the future.
grumpy
 

Re: smart meters

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:32 pm

I know I miss a lot out here on the hill(thank you Lord) but, what the hell is a smart meter?
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: smart meters

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:39 pm

I believe this was discussed already.

Smart Meters
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon


Re: smart meters

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:56 pm

what the hell is a smart meter?


You don't need one you are smart enough. They are so smart that they double c rap out in a solar flare - Fred it's called progress.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: smart meters

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:35 pm

Well, that was quite the curt answer!! :clap: toothy ---couldn't help myself ;) Progress huh??? :roll: :(
WNY wrote:I believe this was discussed already.

Smart Meters
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:47 pm

My place had one installed without notice or permission. I noticed the power had gone out one beautiful day last fall. I looked at the meter and it had been changed.
My next electrical bill was 40% higher.. and they have stayed higher compared to last years bills..

I've gone from room to room to figure out where the culprit is.. and there isn''t one..

It's the meter..

Mine may become defective.. real soon.

Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:50 pm

Smart meters continually send all of your electrical usage information over radio waves to an information collecting station. They can tell when you are home, when you are not at home, when you are using more electricity than normal (a very suspicious act, worthy of investigation by the authorities, particularly if it happens at night), when you are brushing your teeth, watching TV, etc...

If the power company says they are going to change your meter, this is likely the kind they will be replacing your old one with.

Anyone who can gain access to your transmission frequency can have all of this information.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Anyone know the cost of the meters?? They can't be cheap.

Why change a perfectly good meter?? just to get rid of meter readers?? Home owners can read their own meters. No need to send a minimum wage
meter reader to look at it.

The suspicious use at night... hmmm when else do people use electric lights, sit and watch the TV, and turn on their 'electric fire logs'..
Yep that's suspicious..

and all for an increase from $120 to 200 per month in my bills.. !!! :mad: :shock: :mad:
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:57 pm

I don't really care one way or the other -- and I really don't see how the meter knows whether I am baking lasagna in the oven or running the clothes dryer. Except, what happens when some clever kid hacks into the central computer and turns off the power at every house, hospital, office building, factory....? :?:
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: smart meters

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:01 pm

LsFarm wrote:My place had one installed without notice or permission ... and all for an increase from $120 to 200 per month in my bills.. !!!

I don't think they need permission, since the meter belongs to the power company and you probably had to sign something 35 years ago allowing them access. But most companies, as a courtesy and so you will tie up the Rottweiler, notify people ahead of time when they're going to do the replacement.

As for the higher charges, either something was wrong before and you were being under-charged. Or something is wrong now and you are being over-charged. Could an electrician figure out which?
Last edited by rberq on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: smart meters

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:04 pm

My place had one installed without notice or permission. I noticed the power had gone out one beautiful day last fall. I looked at the meter and it had been changed.


Greg, is this related to a TOU (Time of Use) problem.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: smart meters

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:23 pm

I haven't seen one yet, but they say you can identify them because the RF transmitter requires FCC approval, so there is some sort of FCC blurb visible on the meter.

Columbus Ohio has them, and the police there are routinely using them to monitor electrical usage (particularly night time), and then they are conducting surprise jack booted thug (err, police) raids of homes in search of meth labs, marijuana growing, etc...

lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: smart meters

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:41 pm

Nope, I dont' have any time of use metering system, that's available if I have an electric DHW heater.

DTE is a screwed up company.. Consumers power is the supplier of power just a mile away,, and they have 1/10th the number of power outages.

I'm at the end of a long supply run.. I'm the last customer, my neighbor 1/4 mile to the east is on a different line, and he has 440 3phase power in his barn,, I can't get it here.. :mad:

I have low voltage every afternoon in the summertime,, at about 3-4pm, when everyone turns on their A/C my voltage drops to at best 105v.. I've seen less than 100v dozens of times.. I take a photo, with my cell phone clock next to the meter for proof of time,, calll in a complaint. and.... yep you guessed it,
the 'tech' shows up the next day,, at 10 am. And of course the voltage is near normal.. they won't replace the transformer because it's still functional.. But it performs below standards..

My favorite experience with DTE was in 1999, my parents had come up for the summer in their motorhome, and were hooked up to the power at the barn.. I put in a dedicated RV plug for their motorhome..
Their motorhome had a low voltage protection system, so that if they were in an RV Park with too many users and low voltage, the motor home would disconnect and keep the A/C and other items in the coach protected from low voltage..

Well I was out on a flight for a few days, and my dad called to tell me that the motor home kept shutting off due to low voltage,, so I told him to call DTE and report the low voltage.. and he did..
The next day,,yep you guessed it, at 10 am a 'tech' shows up. And without even looking at any wiring, sticking a meter in a plug NOTHING,, this female tech proceeds to scare the hell out of my parents, she tells them that :

These old farmhouses burn down all the time from substandard wiring, causing low voltage and higher current, creating overheated wires, catching fire and burning to the ground.. You should NOT be hooked to this electrical feed, you might burn down your son's house..

Now please understand,, this 'old farmhouse' has new underground supply, new service panel, and new wiring out to both barns,,

##$##$$%$^%%&%%^*%%^^%%&^&&**((^%^%$%!!!!!!!!!!

I called a supervisor, and had him come out.. he refused to bring the idiot 'tech'.. I interviewed my father and mother in front of the supervisor,
they told him exactly what happened..
I then took the Super down into the cellar, showed him the new panel, the feed and the supply to the barn,, then walked him back to the barn, showed him the new panel there, and the RV specific plug I'd installed..
I think the 'super' was as mad as I was.. to make statements like she did with absolutely zero investigation..

The one good thing was that by the time all of this had transpired, it was late enough in the day that the voltage was dropping, he'd seen my meter's reading when he showed up.. and it had dropped from 112v to 105v in the two hours he was there..
He had the transformers checked and 'turned up' but they are as afraid of overvoltage as under.. so on a low use timeperiod, I can see 125v, which they consider high..

I can't win..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: smart meters

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:56 pm

Love getting into this as I had a similar experience on our farm 5 years ago. Is this a starting point? Get a $50 electric DHW from the paper - busted is OK. Get into TOU and the four periods. You can win this one - I did! Con Edison is the greatest bunch of crooks in the nation. Sorry, your crooks are minor league.

http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=312

Just another question are you a business and do they charge you on peak load or KWH. Yanche where are you?
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: smart meters

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:05 pm

lsayre wrote:Smart meters continually send all of your electrical usage information over radio waves to an information collecting station. They can tell when you are home, when you are not at home, when you are using more electricity than normal (a very suspicious act, worthy of investigation by the authorities, particularly if it happens at night), when you are brushing your teeth, watching TV, etc...

If the power company says they are going to change your meter, this is likely the kind they will be replacing your old one with.

Anyone who can gain access to your transmission frequency can have all of this information.

While possible to intercept the digitally encoded information transmitted by your meter it would be quite difficult. The transmissions have a very low duty cycle. For example the in CA the PGE smart meter only transmits 50 milli-seconds every four hours. It's also low power, a configurable power only sufficient to reach the access point which is frequently mounted on a utility power. The same access point serves many meters and the network topology is a mesh, so as the network expands, the access point or meter if it is used as an access point will transmit more. Your specific data will still be a very, very small portion of the data stream.

A more in depth discussion of the CA PGE system is here:


http://www.ccst.us/publications/2011/2011smartA.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Here's a graphic of the topology:

Smart_Meter.jpg
(88.11 KiB) Viewed 14 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]34077[/nepathumb]


This is only one of many possible implementations. What you might have depends on your utility company, and what it sells, or bills (electric, gas, water, etc.)
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea