hauling coal in a trailer

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:58 pm

Rob R. wrote:The big question is...with 4 tons in the trailer, how much weight is on the tongue?

Generally you want 10-15% of the trailer's gross weight on the ball. Assuming the trailer weighs a ton and the total weight is 10,000#, you would want around 1000-1500# of TW. A fifth wheel will want 15-25%.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:53 pm

The Dodge 2500 has from 19K to 21.5K GVW depending on year and transmission.

With a ton in the truck bed, put fully forward, I'd be comfortable with 5 tons of trailer and coal behind me. just make sure you have some tongue weight.. at least 300#.

What ever you do, DO NOT EVER rear-load a trailer, it acts like a pendulum on a clock,, and will be uncontrolable.
I've learned this the hard way.. I've had a rear loaded trailer and truck get away from me at 55mph.. and I used both shoulders on a 4 lane road before I restored control.. Always try to center the load over the axles, leaving 5-10% for the tongue.. this is where the WDH comes in handy,, it transfers a portion of the load to the front axle of the truck..

Run your tires at MAX, or above.. My Michelin LTX tires on my Dodge 2500 had an 80# max pressure,, and that's where I ran them when hauling coal or a heavy trailer. Run the trailer tires at max as well.

I'm not a big fan of hydralic 'surge brakes' on heavy loaded trailers. I like the control that electric brakes give the driver.

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Lsfarm,at least you got regained control of it for me it was after the trailer was sitting on the hood of my 92' Cummins Dodge(thank god when it started to sway the cars by me got the hell out of the way :shock: )so just my truck was involved,so now it's Goosenecks and 5Th wheels only for the heavy loads(10,000#+).Keepaeyeonit :)
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
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Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:00 pm

I can imagine that the "Fruit of the LOOM" guys and the 'BVD Fellowship Folks' were exchanging phone numbers after that wild ride!! Those 'pre-stained drawers' are a better buy in most cases.
We have all seen it on the open road...saying to whomever is ridin' 'bitch' : 'Hope we get by this accident about to happen before we are on the front page, too'. The good news was that the MediVac chopper was not called.

Safety is no accident and inexperience isn't the best teacher. Ask folks who truck all the time. Lots of crazies out there. :!: :!: :shock:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:50 pm

LsFarm wrote:The Dodge 2500 has from 19K to 21.5K GVW depending on year and transmission.

With a ton in the truck bed, put fully forward, I'd be comfortable with 5 tons of trailer and coal behind me. just make sure you have some tongue weight.. at least 300#.

What ever you do, DO NOT EVER rear-load a trailer, it acts like a pendulum on a clock,, and will be uncontrolable.
I've learned this the hard way.. I've had a rear loaded trailer and truck get away from me at 55mph.. and I used both shoulders on a 4 lane road before I restored control.. Always try to center the load over the axles, leaving 5-10% for the tongue.. this is where the WDH comes in handy,, it transfers a portion of the load to the front axle of the truck..

Run your tires at MAX, or above.. My Michelin LTX tires on my Dodge 2500 had an 80# max pressure,, and that's where I ran them when hauling coal or a heavy trailer. Run the trailer tires at max as well.

I'm not a big fan of hydralic 'surge brakes' on heavy loaded trailers. I like the control that electric brakes give the driver.

Greg L.



Agreed Greg.

However I do not have a problem with hydraulic surge brakes on a loaded trailer. Now an empty trailer, that is another animal all together..............
The key to surge brakes is to hit the pedal hard at first chance to activate them. As long as you have a load, no problem. But with it empty, there is not enough umpff to compress the surge actuator.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
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Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:51 pm

I had that happen with a set of doubles! :shock: Can definitely say the most scared I've ever been in my life!!

I had 55,000 lbs of paper on board. Yes, that's overloaded for a single-axle day cab & a set of pups. That's what you get for being a rookie & trusting your dispatcher. So I'm coming down 190 South in Sterling or Boylston somewhere down a fairly steep hill, and just let the truck go. Could feel the sheer mass of the paper pushing me down the hill with some good force. Before I could hit the brakes to slow down, I hit some bridges that were heaved up due to the repaving job they were doing at the time. I came violently out of the seat, then the whole set started wagging all over the highway. The whole cab started TWISTING from front to back. I had enough sense to not slam on the brakes in panic - I just let off the pedal, & held onto the wheel as best I could for what seemed like an eternity. The wheel was turning in the opposite direction from what the truck seemed to be turning in. When I say twisting, I mean TWISTING! Thought I'd be dead any minute. Seemed like I blacked out for a second, then everything was fine ..... then sweat immediately poured from every part of my body & I could feel my heart POUNDING like never before! WHAT A FRIGGIN' RIDE that was!! :eek2: Thought for sure that was it for me. Would've made front page, that's for sure. What a mess that would've been!!! No idea how I even pulled out of that. Had some help from the Good Lord that day - that's for certain!!

Also had it happen to a MUCH lesser extent when I overloaded that enclosed trailer by 4K+ lbs. Got up to 45 mph, and the trailer started wagging all over the road. I had to pull over & let everyone pass me. :lol: First time that ever happened .... ;) Didn't even bat an eyelash on that one after having lived through the doubles incident. That;s what I get for not having the guy push that last pallet forward over the axle ...
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
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Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:10 pm

Smitty...the cat.....69 lives....but what a way to go! I know, you already bought the pre-stained BSDs just so no one would even ask......good thinking! 2 more calls on 'Zero Start' coal boilers today.........must be the Obama group....they just don't get it, BUT for $38,000K you can buy 'a biscuit' to eat with someone famous!!! I'd go for 5 TT loads of Pa's finest. I'd prefer to meet 'Mr Jack Daniels Personal Representative' especially if I were following Smitty that day!!! Hell, any day! :shock: :shock: :shock: :sick: :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:43 pm

Several stories you guys just listed is why I installed the integrated brake controller available in the 09 Fords. I works the trailer brakes in conjunction with the truck brakes to stop any sway. A few members got to experience with me just how well it works :shock: Heading south with a load of radiators and a Highboy the trailer would kick up a wiggle whenever the pavement changed. A few times it got to a sway from a wiggle. Just as soon as you could feel the sway start, the roll stability control of the F-150 picked it right up and put the correct brake pattern on and stopped it immediately. That was exactly why I bought that brake controller. I think Yanche said his works in a similar way too.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: Short Bus On: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:20 am

3/4 ton Dodge with Cummins, so you have adiquate front axle weight.
8' bed on my Ford holds 1.5 tons heaped, do you have a 8' bed or 6' 6" ? Six pac cab? Either way a bed full of coal will probalby give you adiquate driver weight when you add some hitch weight.
How is your trailer configured, if the axles are just behind the center of the load then it will add some hitch weight, and that is OK. If the axles are on the back of the trailer then the LDH may be apropriate.

They probalby have a scale where you are getting loaded, drive on slow, write the numbers down, do the math, determine your axle weights, move coal with shovel. Maybe get the first load a little smaller and determine if LDH worthwhile. On the door coulumb of your truck is the rated weights for both axles, if you stay under those it should be a productive trip.

Be sure at these weights that your trailer brakes are working.

And on a side note you don't need to sprint up to 65 mph when you get onto the highway, work up to it, move the wheel back and forth at 40, then 50, get a feel for the combination.

You can work on speed and volume on the future loads.

Personally I'm done hauling coal, Two tons in F-250, 40 miles one way, Next summer one 13 ton dump truck load on a slab, with some sort of cover.

-15 F last night, just drove back form Deadhorse, -45 in the morning of 3/14 as I pulled out, I need some summer.
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
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Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: theo On: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:46 am

What class hitch do you have on your truck? Alot of good information on this post, also check your owners manual on towing, should give you a formula in it to go by. I've got a class 5 hitch on mine, what kind of brake controller do you have?
theo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:32 am

Lot's of good info and lots of questions. Well lets start with the older dodge truck. I keep it very well maintaned in so I'm not worried about here age. I run quality load range E's at 80 psi. My trucks GCVW is 18,000. Max tow weight is 11,300. It's a 4x4, quad cab with 8' bed. Auto trans.

6700lb truck + 2000lb in bed + 2000lb trailer + 8000lb of coal = 18,700lb Isn't that stretching the limits of a older 3/4ton dodge So I guess Eric is correct. I would be over by about 700lb. I'll skip breakfast that day.

I tow a travel trailer with it also although not nearly as heavy as the utility trailer full of coal. The brake controller is an integrated electric type. Applies trailer brakes with the truck brakes. By the way in regard to the pendulaum or swaying back and forth thing, I've been told the worse thing you can do is apply the truck brakes. If that happens you should let off of the accelerator and apply the trailer brakes only. I guess they all have this but my brake controoler has a button I can push to apply trailer brakes only. I've never had it happen with my camper but supposedly applying the trailer brakes brings a swaying trailer right back into compliance.

The trailer is a 6x10 so pretty compact. The wheels are slightly to the rear of the trailers center. Brakes are like new and the tires are brand new Maxxis load range E radials at 80 psi. I will make sure the hitch is set up to give me proper tounge weight.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:19 am

It's easy to do a quick check on how the weight is distributed between all of the rig's the axles when fully loaded.

  • Before you load up or hitch up the trailer and with the truck on a flat level surface, measure from the ground up to the bottom of each wheel well.
  • Wright each measurement down and keep it in the truck for future reference.
  • Hitch up the trailer, get your load distributed as you wish between the pickup bed and the trailer. Then drive onto a flat level surface.
  • Remeasure each distance from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well again. Compare them to the unloaded measurement you wrote down before you loaded up. If you find the front wheel well is higher than the unloaded height, that's evidence that the front axle has been unloaded some due to the weight behind the rear axle.
  • The goal is a level truck and trailer. This is were a WDH, or LDH, comes into play. It will distribute the weight that's behind the truck's rear axle and the trailer's axle(s) toward the front axle and the trailer's axles(s).
    • When the WDH is properly adjusted, the front ground to fender well distance should be the same or ~ 1/2" more than the unloaded measurement.
    • If the front measurements are lower (less) than the unloaded measurements, the WDH must be adjusted. Under these conditions the rear axle may be unloaded and too much weight is shifted fore and aft. Rear axle tire traction and breaking may be impaired.

This is simply the safest way to travel on the roadways. If you choose to assess if the front axle has been unloaded by wiggling the steering wheel while under way to find if you have a lack of response, you're taking unnecessary risks. :nono: Just do the measurements before and after you're loaded and you'll know if the front axle has been unloaded by the leverage of the load distribution. Measuring the front wheel well distance take only seconds.

I don't have a very heavy truck. It's a mid weight range F150. I've found that adding a $100 pair of Timbren SES to the truck has made a world of difference. They aren't meant to increase your load capacity. The do such a good job of making the loaded truck feel stable, it's easy to believe you can carry more than you should. IMHO, they're worth looking into especially for a lighter truck.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
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Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: theo On: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:21 pm

Just google trailer towing, many good sites out there with lots of good info, here is just one http://www.hitchinfo.com/index.cfm?even ... eceid=5146
theo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: hauling coal in a trailer

PostBy: offcoursey On: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:51 am

I use a military trailer and load it with 2 tons. Pindle hitch, surge brakes, 1500 silverado... feels good but I am only going less then 15 miles and no more then 45mph.
offcoursey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay
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