New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: warminmn On: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Someone must sell decorative pieces to attach to the steel stoves, or maybe make your own? What I'm thinking of are the kind of pieces they sell that go around the stove pipes that look like leaves, etc. Anyone that could weld, braze or maybe even solder could probably make an attractive piece to attach to the stoves of any design they could dream up. I bet a person could turn a Hitzer or similar stove into a very attractive stove. Myself I think they look nice how they are but not everyone does.

I bet someone on here has already done it.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:40 pm

dlj wrote:
LsFarm wrote:
Nope, cast iron was used becuase it was cheap. hundreds, maybe thousands of casting businesses.. I've owned dozens of cast iron parlor stoves.. from all over the place,, seems virtually every town had a blacksmith that could cast iron parts..

But cast does NOT make a good flat panel for a stove. Flat gives it problems of expansion.. the cannon heater you described is round,, so the expansion was more even, and controled. The flat panels will expand unevenly and crack,, I've passed up dozens of cracked stoves for sale.

How many steel box stoves are in the scrap pile behind the stove shops?? Not many,, How many cast iron stoves?? mountains of them..

Steel stoves do hold up just fine to the heat of fires. if overfired, a piece can be safely cut out and replaced,, you can't do that with cast iron.. just throw the stove away unless you want to pay more than the stove is worth to recast a panel.. and have the risk of yet another crack developing.

NOPE.. Mulit section boilers??? Cast is wonderful?? nope,, they corrode away from the inside or at the connections , and if you run one low on water, it cracks..
A steel boiler?? takes that abuse in stride..

Grates are the only good place for cast,, heavy, simple and as long as the ashpan is emptied and the ash doesn't touch and insulate the grate from the cooling incoming air, then they will last a long time with a hot fire right on top of them.. but that's the only real place to use cast.. anyplace else is a gamgle.

Greg L.


I know you don't like cast iron Greg, that's been pretty clear for a long time. But several things you've said above are just plain wrong. Blacksmiths worked in wrought iron and steel, not cast iron. Yes, there were a lot of small foundries.

There are many different cast irons with a wide range of properties.There are a whole series of cast irons that have been developed to be used in the fire box region of stoves. They out-perform steels so well that even you have had to admit above that they are much better to use for grates. All materials have their strengths and weaknesses. Steels are good for some things, cast irons are good for some things. Some areas overlap, some have clear preference of one over the other. Cast iron in all it's many alloys is an excellent material as are steels in all it's many alloys. The smart thing is to use the right material in the right place. Cast iron is a better material in the firebox region of a stove than steel is no matter how you cut and dry it..

dj


Hi DJ, what I don't like about cast iron is the umbrella assumption that it it the 'where all and be-all' for stove construction. And as you
very accurately and thoroughly described, that is not true.
The use of cast iron definitely has it's place.. and in direct contact with a hot, 2000*+fire, cast iron is the desired material.
But to make a box to surround the fire, cast iron does not make good flat stock, and requires sealed corners, and bolted attachments.
Steel rolled in 1/4" or 5/16" sheets will withstand localized overheating without cracking, and will retain it's servicability.

You are 100% correct, I used the wrong term, I was searching for 'foundry' but came up with 'blacksmith'..
Many small foundries had blacksmits, and many blacksmiths had small foundries for casting small parts.

This thread is about someone's obvious appreciation for the cast in details of their cast iron stove, but I object to the assumption
that the 'Hitzer is ugly'..
Personally I find many of the ornate stoves to be downright UGLY.. they look like the aging 'Madame' of a brothel, all gussied up, double girdles,
too much makeup, and too many accessories hanging all over her, in a despriate attempt to look as attractive as she did in her youth.. proud but pitiful.

Like you said, I'm not a fan of cast iron.. I used to sell 'Grizzly' wood stoves.. welded steel boxes, with cast iron doors.. and 90% of my customer
complaints were about warped, ill fitting doors. The castings never seemed to fit right..
So from early on, I learned to not 'trust' cast iron, but from very early years, I learned to fabricate virtually anything out of steel. So I trust steel.

As was mentioned by Pierre, any car will get you from Montreal to Quebec, and some of us will take pride in what we drive, some only care to 'get there'.
But I also will add that a car ill equiped or designed for the trip may not make it to it's destination, no matter how 'pretty or fancy it is.
.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

There's an old Harley Davidson saying " chrome don't get ya home, but it sure does look pretty waitin on the side of the road, for your buddy in his pick-up" :clap: toothy
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

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Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:55 pm

warminmn wrote:Someone must sell decorative pieces to attach to the steel stoves, or maybe make your own? What I'm thinking of are the kind of pieces they sell that go around the stove pipes that look like leaves, etc. Anyone that could weld, braze or maybe even solder could probably make an attractive piece to attach to the stoves of any design they could dream up. I bet a person could turn a Hitzer or similar stove into a very attractive stove. Myself I think they look nice how they are but not everyone does.

I bet someone on here has already done it.



I did this in 1978 when I built my own steel stove to replace the cast iron franklin stove that cracked and leaked, and would not seal up well enough to control a wood fire, so it constantly would get too hot. and eventually cracked..
I was not interested in the commercially available steel box stoves.

I built a steel stove with heat exchanger tubes running from the back to the front of the stove, and installed a duct on the back of the stove to push air through the tubes.. it was like a very large 'Magic Heat' with a fire box under the exhanger..

I found some antique decorative fireplace ornamentation, it was a pair of half=columns with brass rosettes above the reeded columns. There was a top lintel that was an iron plate with a raised basket of fruit. I bolted the columns and lintel to the front of the steel stove and it did make it more attractive.

I wish I had some photos of the old stove, but it stayed with the house when I sold it.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: dlj On: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:37 am

LsFarm wrote:
This thread is about someone's obvious appreciation for the cast in details of their cast iron stove, but I object to the assumption
that the 'Hitzer is ugly'..
Personally I find many of the ornate stoves to be downright UGLY.. they look like the aging 'Madame' of a brothel, all gussied up, double girdles,
too much makeup, and too many accessories hanging all over her, in a despriate attempt to look as attractive as she did in her youth.. proud but pitiful.

Greg L


Greg,

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. Some of the modern stoves are very nice. I'd never classify the Hitzer as ugly, at least the ones I've seen. I also love your description of the ornate stoves! Aging 'Madame' indeed! some of them are just way over the top. But I guess there's a place for everything. If I had an old Victorian house they would fit in.

Also as a note, my old Glenwood is not all cast iron, it's both cast iron and steel.... as one would expect in a well designed stove... :D

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:12 am

Yes the Glenwood stoves make good use of the materials available.. a nice piece of rolled steel for the back part of the cylinder, for quick heat transfer,
and cast for the parts that would require lots of fabrication time and welding.

The base, doors, firepot etc all look great.

I always wonder, the nice heat deflectors, around the base of the stoves, they usually are nickel, and unfortunately get used as foot rests and break. I've seen dozens and dozens of stoves missing the deflectors, or have broken and lousy repaired ones..
One stove I looked at had a brazed repair on one deflector, I asked the seller about it.. he said his wife removed it to dust it, dropped it on the hearth and it broke into three pieces.. Man that would have sent me through the roof.. Dust the ##$#%$ thing ON the stove !!

Decorative iron is nice, for what it is.. I just think of it as heavy eggshells.. :D .

The Art Garland I bought uses NO sheet steel, not even the floor of the ashpan or base heater.. big 22" square 1/8" thick sheets of iron !! I consider myself lucky to have found one that is intact. Only the finial is spun sheetmetal..

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My own 'Aging Madame' all gussied up.. LOL.
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I have looked at several other stoves from this manufacturer, they were a local manufacturer, and all the other stoves had severe heat damage, warped and cracked doors, back panels, diverter boxes etc.. William told me it was probably from trying to burn Bit coal in the stoves designed strictly for Anthracite, and the resulting runaway fires and overheating the stoves..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Boy, Greg, you found a real gem in that stove. I was following your thread over on Art Garland BaseBurner "Double Heater". Nice looking antique. Have you teased yourself into a new chimney yet? ;)
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:08 pm

NO, a new chimney is WAY ,WAY down the list of possible new projects.. If I fired up the Art Garland in this house, I'd have to have the windowstats open in the middle of winter. the house is very tight and well insulate.. now. it used to be a rectangular sieve.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: tmesserli On: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:52 pm

Have and use a VC 2310 and a VC fireplace insert built specifically for coal for at least ten years. Couldn't be happier with both. :D
tmesserli
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Casting Vigilant 2310

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: nortcan On: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:08 pm

tmesserli wrote:Have and use a VC 2310 and a VC fireplace insert built specifically for coal for at least ten years. Couldn't be happier with both. :D


Hi tmesserli, is it possible to send some photos from the V.C. coal insert?
Thanks, nortcan
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: tmesserli On: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm

nortcan wrote:
tmesserli wrote:Have and use a VC 2310 and a VC fireplace insert built specifically for coal for at least ten years. Couldn't be happier with both. :D


Hi tmesserli, is it possible to send some photos from the V.C. coal insert?
Thanks, nortcan


Sure can, give me a couple of days. By the way, really appreciate your Vig videos. :clap:
tmesserli
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Casting Vigilant 2310

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: nortcan On: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:15 pm

tmesserli,
honestly, I'm shure if V.C. or someone else really wanted to, the Vigll COULD BE the very "among" best new stove now. It's a modern looking stove but not too much, just what you can match to any deco. Plus some great points unique to it on a new stove: sliding out ash pan with a sliding on lid, long gasses path going down then up at the back of the stove in a sort of Z so most of the heat stays inside of the house, thermostatic air control, top load or front doors, horizontal or vertical stove's outlet, no need for Baro or MPD, they could be , like in the past time enameled to fit the custommer's special taste...
But no one seems to want the Perfect Anthracite Stove now :!: It would be so easy to do :!:
Many have or are trying to build an antracite stove, don't waste time, energy and money: just copy the Vigll and add some changes/modifs to it and you would get it :!:
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:18 pm

The vigilant 2310 does a real good job with bituminous.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: tmegg On: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:52 pm

Just an update from the OP. I checked out a Leisure Line Pioneer le Top Vent yesterday. Very impressed with the small footprint, value and I could live with the looks. IMO it looks better than most modern hand fired stoves. The low maintenance may push me towards the stoker, something I'd thought I would never do. Here's a pic...
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
tmegg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant Series I

Re: New Coal stove that looks as good as a VC Vigilant

PostBy: stonyloam On: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:58 pm

If the Vigilant burned coal well I would'nt even consider a new stove.


The Vig gen I should burn coal very well. Mine does. The biggest problem is that the design of the insert can be problematic if it is not sealed properly. There are a lot of places where air can leak around the fire and reduce the draft through the coal bed. You need to disassemble and clean the insert and reseal the insert with furnace cement (especially around the plate that seals off the opening in the lower right side of the firebox) then add gaskets (double if needed) to the door to seal against the front of the insert. Is you get it sealed properly it should work just fine. Just curious as to why you don't think it burns coal well? BTW you did stir up some fly ash with this thread :D.
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

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