1st house. Choosing heating sources

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:37 pm

traderfjp wrote:There are a few reasons I don't want a boiler.

1. More work
2. More maintenance
3. Cost
4, Nightmarish install
5. Don't have the room
6. Re-sale value.


You're way, way off base.

?? more work? you are currently dragging ashpans through your living space of your home, and dragging bags or buckets of coal through the same livingspace.
With a boiler in the basement, it's a basement.. you can store the coal for most of the winter right next to the boiler. and the ashpans aren't a disaster if you
sneeze while carrying one and drop it, in the middle of your carpeted living room.

Cost?? what's a new stoker stove cost?? at least $3k,, the Leisure Line baby boiler is ~$4400, and it heats the whole house, come with an oil gun so you can sell the house as an oil heated house or coal heated.. And it's NEW..

Nightmarish install?? how so?? you remove the old oil boiler, the supply and return pipes are right there, the chimney flue is right there..
I'd MUCH rather install a boiler in a basement than install as stoker stove in someones living room.. floor damage, cutting in a chimney thimble or flue,
Enlarge the hearth for dropped hot coals.. fire clearances from combustible walls and furniture.. THAT's nightmarish..

Dont' have what room? you take out the old oil boiler and replace it with a new boiler,, probably with a SMALLER footprint. since most old oil boilers were quite large.

And having a NEW coal/oil boiler with heating bills to show how cheap it is to heat the house, and you are keeping american workers in your own state and county working... Now THAT'S RESALE..

Out on Lonnngggisland I can see some of the costs and attitude being similar to what you say,, but in the heart of coal country?? Nope,,
A coal boiler with oil backup is the way to go..


And WHO mentioned that NG was even AVAILABLE? It is just a guess..

NG is cheap right now, uut just a few years ago, it was almost as expensive as oil and propane.. and pellets?? forget it. enjoy the dust and allergies from them.

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:38 pm

If you already have an oil boiler, the install of a coal boiler should not be a nightmare. Most of what you need would already be in place.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:39 pm

A coal boiler, with the dual-fuel option, is the most effective, smartest and economical method to heat ANY home.

However, even though I know this to be true, only a few people ever go this route, including myself!
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace and Kerosene Heaters.

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 am

LsFarm wrote:
traderfjp wrote:There are a few reasons I don't want a boiler.

1. More work
2. More maintenance
3. Cost
4, Nightmarish install
5. Don't have the room
6. Re-sale value.



?? more work? you are currently dragging ashpans through your living space of your home, and dragging bags or buckets of coal through the same livingspace.
With a boiler in the basement, it's a basement.. you can store the coal for most of the winter right next to the boiler. and the ashpans aren't a disaster if you
sneeze while carrying one and drop it, in the middle of your carpeted living room.

I was just throwing out NG as a viable option. I'm glad you're happy with your boiler. Boilers are a great heating source if it fits your needs but in my situation it doesn't work for me. I already have a stoker and am very happy with it and have no desire to de-comission it. Also, I'm pretty lucky because after 4 years I never once dropped any ash on the floor. Just so you know - My basement is a living space so if I had a boiler I would be lugging coal up and down stairs and also doing the same for the ash bin. Neither of these scenarios work for my situation.

Cost?? what's a new stoker stove cost?? at least $3k,, the Leisure Line baby boiler is ~$4400, and it heats the whole house, come with an oil gun so you can sell the house as an oil heated house or coal heated.. And it's NEW..

Many banks and insurance companies will turn up their noses to a coal boiler and it will ultimately kill the sale of my house. I guarantee it. I installed my stoker myself but for a boiler I would need a CO and would have to hire a plumber. To install a boiler I would also have to tear out the existing cast iron monster boiler and somehow get an extremely heavy coal boiler into the basement. I would probably have to do some carpentry to make this happen. So now we're talking 4,400.00 for a boiler and another 3k for an install plus dumping costs. I would estimate 8-9k after all is said an done. I can buy a lot of oil for that an not have any extra headaches or possibly a pellet stove.

Nightmarish install?? how so?? you remove the old oil boiler, the supply and return pipes are right there, the chimney flue is right there..
I'd MUCH rather install a boiler in a basement than install as stoker stove in someones living room.. floor damage, cutting in a chimney thimble or flue,
Enlarge the hearth for dropped hot coals.. fire clearances from combustible walls and furniture.. THAT's nightmarish..

I don't understand this logic at all. A stoker is an easy install. Throw down some tile on the floor for a hearth, measure off the wall fr compliance, cut a hole for the ehaust, plug the sucker in and you're done. I installed my stoker in about 3 hours and about 3 hours to build the hearth. Removing a heavy cast iron boiler and installing a coal boiler is wayyyyyyyy more work. To me it's a nightmare.

Dont' have what room? you take out the old oil boiler and replace it with a new boiler,, probably with a SMALLER footprint. since most old oil boilers were quite large.

And having a NEW coal/oil boiler with heating bills to show how cheap it is to heat the house, and you are keeping american workers in your own state and county working... Now THAT'S RESALE..

NEVER! (: This will not happen on my watch. Most people have an extremly negative view of burning coal. It's dangerous, dirty, bad for the environment, too much work, etc. I'm not saying I agree with their opinions but from my own experiences and talking with the guys who sell the stoves/boilers there is a stigma with coal. I still love it but lets be realistic.

Out on Lonnngggisland I can see some of the costs and attitude being similar to what you say,, but in the heart of coal country?? Nope,,
A coal boiler with oil backup is the way to go.

I don't live in coal country so it's a moot point.


And WHO mentioned that NG was even AVAILABLE? It is just a guess..

NG is cheap right now, uut just a few years ago, it was almost as expensive as oil and propane.. and pellets?? forget it. enjoy the dust and allergies from them.

Greg L.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:41 am

Trader: Most if not all your arguments are moot, since they are based on Long Island attitudes, bank lenders and by the layout of your house. And it's availability of NG. You are arguing apples, the OP is talking about oranges.

In coal country, homes can get loans with dual fuel boilers.. and people buying just have to ask and they will find hundreds of positive comments
about burning coal.. NOT the liberal 'tree-huggy' greeny BS that the many on the east coast and probably 99.999999999% of people on Long Island believe.

Every install is different.. your stoker took a day. A good plumber could replace an existing oil boiler with a Leisure LIne dual fuel 110K boiler in a day or two at most. Depends on the basement's layout.. certainaly not a nightmare.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:09 am

The contractors on Long Island aren't happy making 400-600 a day - they want to make a kiiling on every job that is why I end up doing most of my own work. I once was quoted 8k to replace my oil fired boiler - I can't imagne what they would want for an applicance they aren't familiar with. My situation is set. I'm not going to add a coal boiler just to heat my basement when the stoker does the whole house and even pre-heats the water for the boiler. I have a 48' S.S. coil in the stove with a small brass taco that keeps the water circulating between the coils and my boiler. I'm using about 20-30 gallons of oil a month to heat my basement. This translates out to 120.00 a month and to about 900.00 for the year. It's very affordable but I want to get rid of oil for other reasons then costs.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:15 am

Well my .02$ is if its your starter home, go with a nice used handfed stove. I really like the thought of a hopper model like a Hitzer, but I have never used one so my knowledge is limited on on theory on how well they operate. If you plan on staying for several years, most certainly go with a stoker boiler. My mind is made up 100% for my next stove and thats a nice AA130. But like I stated if its your starter home, keep it under a 1000 bucks and save your money for your future home.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Anthracite

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:23 am

Fair enough, let's forget LI for now and get back to the guy that started this thread.

The facts: New to him house in the heart of coal country, hot water baseboard already installed. Sounds like basement is unfinished.

Greg has suggested the LL110 boiler, which has a small footprint and is very efficient on coal or oil.

If space permits and the existing boiler is still serviceable, I would add a coal boiler to the existing system. If he shops around for a used boiler this could be done for a very reasonable cost.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: ben On: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:47 pm

My advise would be tie in a refurbished EFM stoker to the exsisting oil boiler. I had an Alaska stove several years ago which I really liked and used 3 ton each season. Would you believe after I installed my EFM I am only burning five 5 ton with heating my domestic hotwater and having an even temperature thu my house with two zones. With my EFM hookup I had to rip out electric baseboard and install hot water baseboard with 2 zones. This is my third year and I cannot be happier. Also, I do not have to run the de-humidifier all summer in the basement the EFM keeps my cellar nice and dry which is a saving on electric usage. I have a traditional Cape Cod house about 1600 sq feet.
ben
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 350

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:23 pm

traderfjp wrote:With a potato masher I can compress the ash down and go twice as long between trips to empty it.

:idea: :!: Gotta try that!
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: 1st house. Choosing heating sources

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:59 am

rberq wrote:
traderfjp wrote:With a potato masher I can compress the ash down and go twice as long between trips to empty it.

:idea: :!: Gotta try that!


Twice as long is being very conservative. The ash bin gets a bit heavy for the handle so I went out and bought some aluminum and doubled up the metal on the handle and now I feel that the handle can take the extra weight. I bent the metal to form to the original handle and then used screws to screw the two handles together. This stiffened up te handle nicely.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Visit Lehigh Anthracite