draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: backwoodbill On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:17 pm

hello!:
I,am installing my new harmon mark2 this comming fall after i remove my existing englander woodstove I have noticed that over the last couple of years my draft in the chimney has decreased to the point that when the chimney/stove is stone cold i get a terrible amount of smoke comming out of the stove till i get the stack temp high enough that there is sufficient draft to carry the smoke up an out of the chimney so naturally i,am concerned about it i clean the chimney with a rod and brush set twice a season and also clean the black interior pipe inside the house oh yes i should mention the metal bestos chimney runs up the exterior of the house now my feelings are that perhaps the residual creosote that is left in the pipe after vigorous cleaning may be the culprit so before i remove the wood stove would it be wise to run some chemical creosote remover through the chimney also i have visually checked for obstructions and there were none present once the chimney is clean i will install a baro and the new stove i will try to borrow a manometer if i cant then i will buy one but due to co gas i want it all to be safe so any advice will be appreciated and any critisism will be taken constructively I,am a retired appliance repair tech and worked on many a gas stove but never got involved with chimney draft theories so its time to learn something new many thanks for any replies so i will be warm this comming maine winter!
backwoodbill
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: mark II

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: Dennis On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:45 pm

I have a feeling that your draft might not be enough,since you have a low draft with a wood fire.
How high is your chimney and is it big enough for the new stove-6 or 8' stove pipe
you may be fine in the colder weather with draft,but might need a draft inducer for warmer weather
Pictures of your chimney will be helpful also
If your draft was reducing over years, there may be pin holes in the pipe also
without a manometer your only guessing on the draft,they are relitively cheap for what they do $30.00 to $40.00
Last edited by Dennis on Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:47 pm

Welcome

I doubt a film of creosote left after a brushing would cause a draft issue but, I may be wrong.

How well did the flue draft when it was new?

Is the cap gooed up with creosote?

Have trees grown up around the house that could be creating turbulance/downdraft?

I would install a manometer asap and check out the draft.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous


Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:11 pm

How about some photos? Draft occurs naturally with proper parameters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimney

Heat help of course but we do not want to give that away.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:09 pm

I will venture a guess that you have "tightened" up your home and the draft is reduced by not being able to pull enough air in. Hence the smoking until the flue really got hot and pulled hard.

kevin

welcome to the forum and where in Maine?
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:30 pm

KLook wrote:I will venture a guess that you have "tightened" up your home and the draft is reduced by not being able to pull enough air in. Hence the smoking until the flue really got hot and pulled hard.

If this is the case you can try opening a window or door to the outside near the stove to see if this has any effect on the draft.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: backwoodbill On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:31 am

thanks to all!:
I will try to answer with a general reply the metalbestos chimney is 6" and its height is approx. 25 to 30 ft. in height pin holes in the pipe are pretty much ruled out as the chimney is only 8 yrs. old (thats my belief) the cap does get creosoted up in between cleanings but when cleaned it still behaves the same as for the house being tightened up yes i have in the last couple of years opened up the second floor and insulated it and installed vapor barrier as the house is a work in progress and is only 8 yrs. old also there are no new trees near the house but 2 yrs. ago i cut down a lot of trees next to the side of the house where the chimney is located for a garden and that was a clear cut area of 50x70 ft. and i left a border of trees approx. 8 ft. wide as a windbreak i should mention that the chimney faces south or is on the south side of the house and i live in mariaville,me. thats next to ellsworth i.e. eastern maine now i,am curious that nobody commented on the chemical creosote remover and i,am sorry that i cannot provide pics. at this time as i do have a dig. cam but theres not enough time in a day for me to figure out how to upload the pics with it as each day i do work on the house as much as i can till my disabilities prevent me from continuing and have to rest up thats the main reason i,am switching to coal as my health wont allow me to hand harvest fire wood off of my prop. any longer and i can,t afford the equiptment to make harvesting easier and well its still a lot of hard work producing fire wood and i,am greatfull that i was able to burn wood as long as i did before health problems well back to the chimney i have tried opening a window and a door to help (usually mandatory due to the smoke in the house it sets off the smoke alarms) for me this is a tough call as it might be one or more of the problems i have mentioned and also when the chimney was brand new i did not have the problem except an occasional puff back from a heavy gust of wind now a draft inducer was mentioned so i will have to investigate just what that is as till now i have never seen or heard of one of these i,am sure that i can look it up on this forum so again many thanks for the replies and i will look foward to more till we get this figured out and nailed down sincerely Bill!
backwoodbill
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: mark II

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:24 am

Bill, what happens if you ball up & light some newspaper & hold it in the stove (without fire going) That should give you an idea on your draw. How high above your roof ridge does the chimney go--at least 3' I hope??? What kind of damper do you have in the black pipe?? Personally I think metalbestos chimneys suck, but ya got what ya got. Hopefully we can get this resolved. ;) Happy Easter my friend
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:01 am

backwoodbill wrote:now a draft inducer was mentioned so i will have to investigate just what that is as till now i have never seen or heard of one of these


Tjernlund AD-1 Draft Adjustments
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:51 am

Depending on what kind of stove you go with you might not need a good draft some of the stoker stoves have a blower that pushes the flue gas out. In that kind of set up you would need to seal the joints of the pipe to prevent smoke from entering the living space.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: backwoodbill On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:57 am

o.k. well in all honesty when the stove and chimney are stone cold when you open(the stove door now we are talking the wood stove now) cold air falls out enough to move a flame to some degree so lit paper under present conditions the flame would hit your fingers so thats gotta be bad and the damper is a manual cast iron one and thankyou Dennis for the draft inducer link I glossed over it and need to study it further from a quick glance it appears to be as i know it a version of a power venter but without further study i may be wrong and the stove i went with is a new harmon mark2 hand fired stove i choose it after visiting many stove related forums and found that line of stove highly recomended and it meets my needs properly run and maintained i should never need another stove in my time i just had a thought sitting here and i,ll put it out there for your scrutiny my house is built on a masonry slab and natually with a slab the first three feet off of the floor the air is considerably colder than the upper air in the room what i,am getting at is take that problem and add tightening up the house in the last couple of years and changing the tree geography on the same side of the house as the chimney for the garden also in the same time frame seems to pretty much seal the argument of having a good problem so a draft inducer seems to perhaps be needed to cure the problem unless there is another way to correct it i,ll mention my backup heat is hot water baseboard fired by propane and generally i keep it set very low which raises the question can internal temp of a structure dictate how much draft may be present in a chimney based on the thought heat rises! i thought it was a fair question and before i forget the question of how high the top of the chimney extends over the peak of the house it is 3ft. above the peak all :idea: welcome! again thanks for all the replies Bill!
backwoodbill
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: mark II

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: backwoodbill On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:12 am

Hello!:
many of you asked for pics of the chimney set up cant do pics right now but for those of you familiar with metalbestos chimneys i used every manufacturer required part for the installation for an exterior through wall chimney if you look them up and see how they recommend the installation then that is what i have six inch pipe with total height of thirty feet approx. and to better describe things my roof style is a gambrell metal roof
backwoodbill
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: mark II

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:40 pm

Be waiting for pix my friend. Have a good Easter today.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:13 pm

I have burned wood in many different stoves and I NEVER have had cold air come back in. :shock: I have seen sluggish drafts but it always picked up as soon as some heat was generated. It sounds like something is pulling hard on the interior space. bathroom vents, range hoods, etc. have to get air from somewhere to push air out. As to thinking metalbestos sucks, I have had both kinds and I will take the metal any day. Cheaper to install, cheaper to replace, cleans easy and drafts just fine. Masonry will last longer if you only burn coal, but wood is a different matter. Either you have a downdraft situation or something is creating a suction that pulls air down the chimney. And you are not far from a few of us.

kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: draft decreased over time in metalbestos chimney

PostBy: backwoodbill On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Thanks Kevin:
you know something pullin on the draft is interesting as i designed and built the house myself and i paid great attention to the roof being able to breath due to the tin roof as my concern with condensation was considerable i have proper vent in every bay under the tin and soffit vent under every eave and ridge vent and i also built a cupola on the roof that measures 8'x8'x8' with four windows and a hip roof also vented against condensation the house measures 28'x24' two story gambrell with a loft on each end at the peak above the second floor and i use the cupola to get a draft up through the house in the summer months if i open the windows in the cupola and the windows on the first floor it pulls the cold air off of the concrete slab acting as a natural a/c system and it works quite well i guess it well is maybe the cause of the poor draft as it is fighting the house design which i based on how old barns chicken and cattle were designed to have that natural chimney effect for summer cooling so again it looks to be back at using a draft inducer so do you need a baro in conjuction with a draft inducer and once the draft is up to speed i.e. the stove is hot and producing a good draft can you shut down the inducer and let the baro take over or must it stay running as long as the stove is and i noticed in the link Dennis sent me that you may have to back off the inducer fanspeed as it may produce too strong of a draft which leads me to another question if you have to keep the inducer running how will that effect the burn time or coal consumption and my objective is to try and stick to pea coal and maybe some nut in the real cold temps but that will be a trial by fire (excuse the pun!) next heating season and sorry Fred can,t do pics right now though it would be real helpful i know but the priority list does not allow for learning digital photogrophy and processing as i really stink at using computers i,am an old schooler! many thanks too all Bill!
backwoodbill
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: mark II