Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:39 pm

The Rev. Dr. Wilson, stated the following in a sermon that was published in 1831:

"When the war was over and the victory over our enemies won, and the blessings and happiness of liberty and peace were secured, the Constitution was framed and God was neglected. He was not merely forgotten. He was absolutely voted out of the Constitution. The proceedings, as published by Thompson, the secretary, and the history of the day, show that the question was gravely debated whether God should be in the Constitution or not, and, after a solemn debate he was deliberately voted out of it. ... There is not only in the theory of our government no recognition of God's laws and sovereignty, but its practical operation, its administration, has been conformable to its theory. Those who have been called to administer the government have not been men making any public profession of Christianity. ... Washington was a man of valor and wisdom. He was esteemed by the whole world as a great and good man; but he was not a professing Christian."
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:51 am

SMITTY wrote:But nativity scenes have been used in the public square since the dawn of our country. It's our TRADITION. To hell with everyone else. It's an AMERICAN tradition. Our traditions are all under attack today.


It's a Christian tradition, do you think if someone other than Christians wanted to put up religious scene on public property even 50 years ago it would of happened? Even today the Christian religion gets precedence over others. It's just easier to eliminate all displays of religion. Don't get me wrong here, I'm trying to appease other religions, separation of church and state is one the basics of are government and one of the most important ones.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:55 am

I have to agree in part with both of you Richard & Isayre it is both a tradition & the fact that one gets preference over others but I think all should be able to observe & display equally rather than total elimination. There could be a size or site restriction but to deny all would also be appeasement to only one, the truly non-believers & that could possibly lead to the removal of in God We Trust from currency decades old beautiful bronze plaques from public buildings (which were paid for & approved of by the people of the time) & then it will go on from there the few will be dictating to the masses which seems to be the direction we have been heading for decades.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:06 am

Sam you have somewhat of point there but that opens a can of worms itself. We have for example the Santa Claus with the noose around it's neck display last Christmas. Now you have the government in the position of deciding what is appropriate so you're back to square one with no separation of church and state.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:21 am

You cannot legislate morality. There is no separation as long as there are displays favoring any religion. ALL displays of religious nature should be removed, tradition or not, and placed wherever the people that support them want, in a private setting. When does something become a tradition? It was a tradition here to burn all the fields and meadows every spring to keep them clear. Now that enough have moved in from "away" and the fire police have used fear to expand their budgets for toys to battle "wildfire arson", it is practically impossible to do anything at all. Tradition is in the eye of the beholder, and has no place in a government of all the people.

Kevin
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:32 am

Per Wikipedia the slogan "In God we Trust" is a latecomer:

"In God We Trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the original motto of E Pluribus Unum.

In God We Trust has appeared sporadically on U.S. coins since 1864 and on paper currency since 1957.

And as to the Pledge of Allegiance:

The original 1982 version was:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The pledge went through several modifications, and the phrase "under God" was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance on June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress.

So even God in the Pledge is a latecomer. None of this was conceived of by the Founding Founders.
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:33 am

I've never seen that display Richard & kind of hope I never do but there again I don't know if Santa is really known to have been a Saint by most & is more embraced as a symbol of gift giving by most religions without much thought. I just feel that ever since they took the morning prayer & God out of the P.of A. we have been going downhill, next someone or group will want the National Anthem removed before events. I attend a good bit of my local Twp. meetings & there was one man that wanted the P. of A. removed from the meetings, he was simply just told the meeting would begin at 6:10 for him & at 6:00 for anyone that didn't mind & seeing how we are all in America & it was a Gov. meeting it would continue. It seems that no matter what path is taken there is always going to be some offended party & that's one of the reasons I think traditions should play some part, kind of like being exempt from something new because of being Grandfathered in.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:36 am

samhill wrote:to deny all [displays] would also be appeasement to only one, the truly non-believers

"Appeasement" is not an appropriate word in this case. "Prevention of encroachment" by the displayers would be more accurate.

samhill wrote:that could possibly lead to the removal of in God We Trust from currency

Considering the inflated condition of our currency, our trust in God was perhaps misplaced. :lol:
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:38 am

Good points but if we lose all points of pride, traditions & individuality in the name of possibly not offending then what comes next, do we all have to wear the stealth coveralls & become invisible non-thinking zombies.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:41 am

lsayre wrote:The pledge went through several modifications, and the phrase "under God" was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance on June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress.

To differentiate us from the Godless Commies!
Congress, ready as always to pass essential legislation! :sick:
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:52 am

rberq wrote:
lsayre wrote:The pledge went through several modifications, and the phrase "under God" was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance on June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress.

To differentiate us from the Godless Commies!
Congress, ready as always to pass essential legislation! :sick:


McCarthism strikes again!
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:01 am

Good points but if we lose all points of pride, traditions & individuality in the name of possibly not offending then what comes next, do we all have to wear the stealth coveralls & become invisible non-thinking zombies.



Your traditions can remain yours, just don't push them on me or anyone else. Christmas is a great example, it has become nothing more then a reason to spend money even if you don't have any. I don't believe in the 'real" reason for Christmas so I shouldn't care. But The length of the season is expanding for commercial reasons. We are inundated with commercials and Christmas specials for months. Thanksgiving is obliterated by it and that should be much more of a tradition for Americans then anything else. Except maybe the 4th of July. Oh, thats right, Thanksgiving is that nasty holiday where we celebrate stealing the land and killing all the Indians. Silly me.

Kevin
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:35 am

samhill wrote:I've never seen that display Richard & kind of hope I never do......


Can't seem to find a reference to it, perhaps I'm thinking of something else but the basics of the story were the town involved issued permits to groups to put up displays around Christmas. They never reviewed the displays and one group hung Santa or something offensive to Christians along those lines. The town said they would review future displays but again that brings up the issue of bias towards Christianity. If you have no religion one could certainly make the argument that hanging Santa is a display of your religious beliefs.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:00 pm

KLook wrote:The length of the season is expanding for commercial reasons.

All the car dealers here have Presidents' Day sales. This year they all had Presidents' MONTH sales.
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Re: Rick Santorum Suspends Campaign

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:19 pm

samhill wrote:... traditions should play some part, kind of like being exempt from something new because of being Grandfathered in.

I agree, and fortunately some courts have been understanding by protecting displays that are just part of the history of a place. Offensiveness is a matter of degree, that is, how much "in your face" is a particular display. I don't believe God exists, but I couldn't care less about "In God We Trust" on my money, for example, it's just something that has been there as long as I can remember. But I am seriously offended by my elected representatives participating in "prayer breakfasts", because they tend to make a show of how pious they are (the hypocrits!), and it entwines organized religion -- a dangerous force -- with government, sort of a you-scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-yours arrangement.
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