If I wanted America to Fail

Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:21 pm

samhill wrote:Franco, how much more of a better climate can we afford to create?

It's the other way around. How much worse climate can we afford. The Reagan tax cuts created full employment and far greater revenue for government.

Another way for government to gain revenue is to get rid of the useless departments such as education. Get rid of government unions and a million other employees whose only duty is to harass those who produce. You are also right about the sweetheart deals; just look at the Medicare drug plan.

After that we can try to determine what percentage of earnings to seize without causing the economy to collapse.

Why do we need tax increases when Obama just prints all he needs? You know just as well as I that we are in an untenable situation. Cut spending first and let the market clear out the dead wood, then if that does not work I will agree with you that we should charge the bastards for all they are worth.

We are at the tipping point with a majority either working for or getting income from government. Guess how they will vote when it comes to getting less or reducing the producers to serfdom.
franco b
 
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:56 pm

Franco, under Reagan there was an explosion of Gov. jobs created & believe it or not we still had industry which produced goods for all over the world & now it's the other way around. Reagan also had houses that worked together to get us out of a recession, big difference.
Funny how everyone wants to get rid of Dept.s that used to work instead of simply fixing the problems if possible. Same goes for the Unions, give them a chance to work with Gov. (remember it was Gov. that gave them all they got). As a U.S.W. we had a no strike clause, others could only strike one plant rather than the whole industry (UAW). I really don't see how firing a million or more is going to help much.
Is it Obama or the Feds that just print when they deem it time? Never could figure that one out in any event the Feds have always done it regardless of party in WH.
If you would cut every dime of so called entitlement spending there would still not be enough to pay the Int. yet alone the debt.
I hardly think multi billion dollar businesses would be reduced to serfs if at least paying for the services they receive, how many billions per year are spent just on lobbyist & We the People have none. Get rid of all the "special" tax laws permanently & there would be no need for lobbyists.
As for other private sector jobs under Reagan just ask a Steelworker or Air Traffic Controller as well as others, as a steelworker I was working more than enough before Reagan & it was all gone before he was.
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:34 pm

I keep tryin to keep out of this stuff as of late. But, what the hell. You said something real impt sam--Reagon had houses that we're willing to work together for the betterment of this good old USA. That has NOT and NEVER will happen with BO in the White House. Now I ask, does anybody want to open that can of worms or shall we just hope, pray & vote come Nov. for someone that can get this govt. WORKING together. Romney has his faults as did all the prospective Rep's, but I beleive he is capable of getting this Country headed back where it belongs. Dem's, how's all that CHANGE concept been working for all of us? :(
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:53 pm

Plenty of good points to go around Fred. For some reason as soon as Obama got in the 's swore to do nothing to help this Pres. now someone tell me why that became the rule of thumb before he ever got a chance to do anything? As I have said many times our politicians for the most part are all bought & paid for, just look at how many go right into being lobbyist if they should fail to get re-elected. Our Gov. is rotten & corrupt on both sides IMO, one just has to decide which side will do the least harm which has been a real travesty for a real long time.
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:12 pm

This man says it a lot better than I can.

http://www.europac.net/commentaries/damn_torpedoes
franco b
 
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:57 pm

I don't know my friend, I think you could of summed it up much better. ;) So then, we're doomed?????
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:07 pm

Ya never say never, America is bigger & better than all of us & has been in hard spots before. I will admit that we were never this divided in my lifetime but it will be alive & well long after all of us are no longer.
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:55 pm

And that my friend is a fact. :)
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: saragnac On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:57 pm

Not sure who but someone said that Conservatives want America and Obama to fail. That is so far from the truth. Even though I'm a far right Conservative Republican and didn't vote for Obama, with the state of the economy at the time he was elected, I would have been more than happy to have been wrong about him. I don't hate the man and don't even begin to entertain those conspiracy theories that surround him. I think he honestly thought he could do all those things that he said he would do but he simply didn't have the experience or even knew what he was getting himself into.

Let's say you hired a contractor to remodel a bathroom in your house. He comes by and tells you all the things he's going to do and how wonderful it's going to be once he's hired. You ask him how much experience he has and he tells you that he's fixed a couple sinks over the last couple years but is confident he can handle a big job like this, so you hire him. Then, he goes WAY over budget, doesn't finish any of the things he says he would, blames others for his failures, and years later the bathroom is still a mess. Now, you decide to add another bathroom upstairs. Are you really going to hire the same contractor, who still hasn't completed any part of his first job, to do your next bathroom?

We can help too. I think that if the price of gas would come down, then everyone would have more money to spend. I wrote a blog in our little hometown paper about an idea along this line.

[*]http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/blogs.detail/display/1723/Fuel-Prices.html
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:48 pm

freetown fred wrote:I don't know my friend, I think you could of summed it up much better. ;) So then, we're doomed?????

No, we are not doomed but we could limp along like this for years with the dollar being devalued at a faster and faster clip, which is a tax that the poor will feel the hardest. It's a way to cut social security and Medicare by doing nothing except under report inflation figures. The crunch will come though in time. Perhaps then there will be the political will to do what's necessary.

Capitalism and free markets sound harsh and heartless but it is the essence of freedom that unleashes the talents of the individual, a sort of nationalism turned inward. The definition of Socialism is the elimination of private property and with it the essence of man. Both G.B. Shaw and Oscar Wilde were Socialists, but Wilde was wise enough to state that it would never work because it was contrary to the nature of man.

And it is that nature of man that has to be contended with, the mindless emotions and the sins of envy and sloth as well as the gluttony of those who never have enough.
franco b
 
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:15 am

ah yes, the 7 sins indeed my old friend.
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: plumb-r On: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:25 am

"Samhill" you paint the picture that nobody wanted to help the president from day one. I might point out that the Dems had control of both the House and the Senate for two years. The problem is instead of doing something that would really make a diffrence in our economy, he went after things like health care. Wasted opportunity, he had the chance to live up to all his promises and blew it. ;)
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:37 am

Plumb-r, my I point out that many times I have made the statement that our political system has been bought & paid for, they should all be wearing Nascar type jackets with Lobbyist Logo's on them. He ran on H.C. reform as did most previous Pres., HC was & is out of control, it remains to be seen how much this will help but even without the fanfare there are parts that are already working. If you think HC doesn't make a difference in the economy you must live in a vacuum. Don't forget the bailout was already in effect when he took office, the fact that tax revenue is at it's extreme lowest & need at it's highest has much to do with it, he is trying but no one can do it alone, don't you remember the "Hell NO We Won't Help" speeches, I would have hoped that people in the position of running the country would be above things like that. If I wanted America to fail I would divide & conquer to create turmoil from within.
samhill
 
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:00 am

I think HC is nothing but a smoke screen to keep away from the basic real changing policies--stupid stuff like drug testing welfare recipients, a serious effort in clamping down on medicaide fraud--whoops, wouldn't want to upset those docs ( thieving pricks), immigration (illegal) ( wouldn't want to upset the libbers) how about some safe gas & oil drilling here in our back yard (can't upset the tree huggers) instead of making all this solar,them weird batt operated cars--( what working grunt can afford all this green crap & keep food on the table??? sam, I must be missing where this HC is helping anyone--must be out of my league-- :(
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Re: If I wanted America to Fail

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:28 am

Fred, whenever someone goes to the ER, if welfare scum normally using an Ambulance as a taxi makes a lot of noise about having to wait them goes in & wants pain meds for a hang nail or some other crap, or someone with no health Ins. the ER still has to treat them (Fed Law). Just who do you think ends up paying for that crap? I'll give you a hint it's not the hospital & it's certainly not a Ins. Co., who's left? There is more being done about illegals now than previously since Ike, wel-fare fraud was built in but they are busting a lot, drilling is OK in my book, it's the safe part I question why do they get a free ride & don't even have to disclose what they use, what is a first responder going to treat for or protect against? The sun has always been there why not use it to supplement along with wind & anything else, started way back with Carter & Reagan trashed it for oil, think of how far advanced we would have been by now. I think the drug testing should start by example in DC & every Gov. employee from top down be tested & wel-fare slugs are nothing but Gov. non-working employees. While we are at it they should all have to pay for HC & all other benie's just like anyone else. Remember which party has been in power the vast majority of the last few decades that we have really been on a downward slide & all these problems were there & nobody did anything.
samhill
 
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