No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 9:37 am

I'm pretty sure it's still high here now, it's rained for nearly three weeks.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 10:22 am

OK, so I looked at the shower valve, apparently it is a Moen. Surprisingly enough. In order for me to take the cartridge out do I have to take the entire valve out of the wall or can I just undo the front of it and spin it?

It would appear that I have a Moen 3270; that is, for the most part, missing all kinds of crazy parts from the owner's manual and parts list. Who knows about these things?

http://www.moen.com/shared/docs/explode ... 3270pt.pdf

http://www.moen.com/shared/docs/instruc ... ns162j.pdf

Have I said how much I love this site lately? You guys are great. I learn so much about all kinds of things. Coal stoves, plumbing, septic systems, politics (which I avoid), cars. I love you guys.

I also do not believe that if I call Moen and tell them my shower valve is not functioning properly,they won't replace it for free; I'm not the original owner of the valve it was hear when my wife moved in in 2005.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sat May 26, 2012 10:30 am

I'm On Fire wrote:I'm pretty sure it's still high here now, it's rained for nearly three weeks.


There are limestone formations underground in our area. Every time there's an influx of water into the water table the hardness rises. The tube from the motor to the base on my sump pump is white with lime deposits.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/njgs/enviroe ... County.pdf
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert


Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 10:46 am

I remember my mom's house in Highland Lakes growing up, when my parents did the septic system there was nothing but limestone they dug out of the ground. At my house here in Vernon, its a lot of shale.

So, I know absolutely nothing about this valve. How do I get the cartridge out? Do I have to remove the balancing spool too? If I break this thing my wife is going to be pissed, the replacement is $242. :shock: Oh, I see Lowe's has the same valve for $150. Still high but not as much as what Moen wants.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 11:00 am

Nevermind, it seems that since this thing has been in there so long that getting the cartridge out is next to being one of the most difficult things to get out. YouTube has told me that the only way to get it out is to tap it and use a bolt with a socket to "pull" it out. Which, at this point, would mean I'd either have to buy a new cartridge; if I'm lucky, or a new valve.

Either way, I'm buying parts.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat May 26, 2012 11:45 am

Besides sediments, and mineral deposits, you could also have solder blocking passages. If the piping is copper, too much solder would run through the joint while sweating pieces together.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
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Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 11:50 am

I've pulled the balancing spool out, it looks clean. I popped the one side of it off and took the float valve out and other than a litlle rust it looks good. I've got it soaking in some CLR right now.

What's weird is that when I look at the cartridges online they are all brass with brass tabs. Mine seems to be plastic with plastic tabs. Still not sure why I can't get it out.

EDIT

Found out why my cartridge is plastic. It was replaced once already. The one in my valve is a Danco Plastic Replacement. So, if it's plastic it should stand to reason that it is not prone to being stuck in the valve body due to corrosion? So, why can't I get it out?
Last edited by I'm On Fire on Sat May 26, 2012 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat May 26, 2012 11:52 am

I'm On Fire wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:
jim d wrote:if it's a moen you can pull out the cartridge and turn it 180 & reinsert it and that will fix the hot on the wrong side it''s supposed to come on cold then turn to hot as you turn the handle ccw

If it's a MOEN, just call them and they'll send you a new one free.
My cousin has called moen many times, and has gotten free parts.


They really do that? Even Keurig doesn't do that with their coffee machines.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 11:58 am

oliver power wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:
jim d wrote:if it's a moen you can pull out the cartridge and turn it 180 & reinsert it and that will fix the hot on the wrong side it''s supposed to come on cold then turn to hot as you turn the handle ccw

If it's a MOEN, just call them and they'll send you a new one free.
My cousin has called moen many times, and has gotten free parts.


I understand that, but according to all their warranty info it says, "Original Owner". I'm just saying that my track record for this kind of stuff isn't very good. I'd call and they'd tell me..'nope sorry'.

Either way, I'm done messing with it today. I got a little more water pressure out of it, the cold side isn't "trickling" like it has for the longest time; it still doesn't have full pressure on either side but it's better than it was.

It's still not right. I think I'm going to order a nwe cartridge, balancing spool, and the two stop-check valves; one seems to be "stuck" and I can't adjust it.

I may swing by Lowe's on my way to my brother-in-law's today and see what available parts they have. I see they have Moen parts on their website, just not sure if they have them in stock.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat May 26, 2012 4:23 pm

IOF.
Your water is call very hard water at 14 GPG.
0 to 1 GPG (grain per gallon) soft water
1.1 to 3.5 GPG lightly hard
3.6 to 7 GPG moderatly hard
7.1 to 10.5 GPG Hard
10.5 Plus GPG is a very hard water.

But even if called very hard water it's not the worst water. I saw water having more than 100GPG and some having more than 10 PPM of iron. Hardness is easy to remove, in fact easier than some irons or tannins...In your water the softner should remove the 0.4 PPM of iron (ferrous iron or invisible iron).
The PH of you water is slightly acid but not that much to need an acid neutralizer. As said on my first post, a water softner works better in a lightly acidic water so it makes no sense to rise the PH if installing a water softner. And usually hard water having a low PH doesn't form lime deposits as with a high PH. In general a neutralizing syst. is not necessary according to your water analyse ( a second analyse could be nice for comparaison). I try to get it simple here but if not let me know...
Having not much iron than 0.4 PPm in your water, a meter (or demand) water softner is a good option, it regenerates only after a certain amout of treated water instead of a timer one. For the price questions, seems too much$$$$$ and you need just one water softner not 2.
Good luck
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 4:51 pm

Thanks Pierre, that makes me feel better.

I went to Lowe's today to see if they had the Stop-Check Valve kits and Cartridge and Balancing Spool but of course, no, they don't. They had a new unit but I don't want to replace the unit if I don't have to. So, I'm probably going to hit one of the supply houses this week with the part numbers and this way I can change all the parts at the same time. I'll take a sample of water down to the supply house when I go for the parts and have them send it out for analysis.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 8:51 pm

So, after wracking my brain and worrying about what is going on with my shower all day I think I have it figured. I spent the better part of the day reading and here's what I've come up with.

My cartridge is definitely 180º out; especially considering my cold water is hot and my hot water is cold. My remedy for this is simple, buy a new cartridge since I'm going to have to force the old one out.

I also think I have an idea why my cold water doesn't exactly come out when it's turned on. There is a problem with that stop-check valve. One stop check valve I can open and close, the other one seems to be "stuck" in a partially closed position. Since I can't get the screw to turn one way or other I've decided to get two new stop-check valves.

Then I figured that since I'm that far into it that I might as well buy a new balancing spool and change that as well, and to finish it off I'm going to add two shut-off valves to the pipes that feed hot and cold water to the shower since today I had the water to the entire house off and then on and then off and on again about three times. Real pain in the ass that is.

I'll round the entire project out with a new escutcheon plate (since it's worn), and generous amounts of Samuel Adams.

**EDIT**
Never mind, the escutcheon for my shower is no longer available as it's been discontinued. Oh, well.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: KLook On: Sat May 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Yeah, thats ok, just pop open another Sam and forget about it. :D I feel for ya, I get into these kind of fix it situations all the time. Thats the trouble with being a know it all/I'll do it myself kind of guy. One way or the other, you pay for your education. I think this way is a better learning experience though. 8-)

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat May 26, 2012 9:47 pm

I wouldn't buy a new cartridge but since the other one seems stuck in the valve body due to corrosion and what-not I'm going to have to tap and use a bolt to get it out, which will ruin it. So, there is no way of just spinning it around. I tried today, and since it's plastic I didn't want to put too much force on it and risk breaking it and NOT have a shower.

As for the stop-check valve, since one is seized in a partially closed position and it's got to come out anyway it'll probably need replacing. I figure that since I'm going that route then I might as well replace everything that could go bad or is bad. I did try to get the stop-check to turn but I broke one side of the screw that protrudes out of it, and rather risk breaking it to where it leaks I decided I had better get one to have on hand. Worst case is I replace the old ones with the new ones, clean the old ones up so they are operable again and keep them as spares.

I'm far from a know it all. Hell, I'll be the first one to admit that I've got absolutely no frickin' clue what I'm doing; that's why I'm here. ;)

I know ultimately, I need a water softener (dunno why I always forget that "e") but in the meantime I need what I have to work. I've been living with poor water pressure in the tub/shower for a long time; it just took the wife to start complaining about it before I decided to attempt to fix it. The water softener is coming, soon as I figure out if a neutralizer is needed or not. I'm going to drop a sample of water off at the plumbing supply house where my wife's ex works so he can get it tested this way I can have some more numbers to work with other than the 10 month old ones I got over last summer.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: No Water Pressure in the tub/shower.....

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun May 27, 2012 9:33 am

If you can get at the valve, I'd consider replacing it and pop in a couple unions just so that you can take it apart in the future. I hear you on the price of a water softener, so for now that can be on the "Wants list" while you can get immediate satisfaction from a valve replacement. After many trips to Florida, I have seen hundreds of valves that are sticking, reduced flow, etc, and we all know that unless you are the faucet nazi, no one will keep them in prime shape for long. Good luck.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
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