Expansion tank mounting question.

Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Sat May 26, 2012 3:24 pm

Hello all,

I have an expansion tank mounting question for my WL110K install. For my install I would like to mount my ExtroL # 90 upside down on my Pump Board, just works out better for my planed piping. I have seen some smaller ET’s mounted horizontally. I’m not sure how this would affect the bladder if at all………any thoughts/concerns. I have to come up with Heavy Duty mounting brackets, if this tank were to fill I believe 100+ pounds of water (14 Gal). I like this bracket system but none for my ET size ……….. Hydroclaw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ9nt9i2kz8 I’ll fabricate some brackets or open for suggestions.

Thanks……………Dick
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Last edited by dh1200s on Sun May 27, 2012 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: kstone On: Sat May 26, 2012 5:22 pm

Hmmm very good question.

1, that size and type off tank has a bladder in the center off the tank so it should be mounted with 1/2 NPT stub up usually to the bottom off the air scoop, sometimes there is a T for the make up water in between the scoop and the x tank

2, mounting that stub down will trap air. that would be the correct way for the old tanks with no bladder in the center

3, so i cant come up with a definite problem that i can say this will happen or this is why that wont work

4, It will as a system work better with the air scoop and expansion tank hanging down from it, and a good air separator on top off the scoop so maybe the worst case is trapped air causing excessive noise in the pipes? That is assuming that your supports dont allow the stub to fail prematurely due to 100 pounds compression force instead off the designed tension force ? that would cause a compressed air powered water rocket :shock:
kstone
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Andes 14 crown
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat May 26, 2012 5:51 pm

I have three expansion tanks manifolded together in my system. The manifold pipe is held by standard pipe hangers. The copper manifold pipe is strengthened with an angle iron. Note the ball valves with bleed on each tank. The valve is installed so the tank can be isolated and the air pressure properly set by removing the valve bleed cap. I have large tank capacity because I have a lot of water in my radiation system and do not have a dump zone. When my boiler overheats, especially in summer months when it's only use is heating domestic hot water, the expanding boiler water needs somewhere to go. With my tank sizing, even with 240 deg boiler water the safety pressure relief valve is still 5 or more psi below releasing.

For your installation I would mount the tank in the normal vertical position, either with a belly clamp or just hanging it off the top pipe mount. Either would work but needs to be sufficiently strong. Be sure to use a valve, perhaps removing the handle, and tying it the the nearby piping.

I don't see a trapped air elimination device. Do you have one?

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Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea


Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Sun May 27, 2012 11:10 am

Thank you for the feedback. I’m a little tight for room in the basement and wanted to mount the ET on the pump board hoping to make the install a bit cleaner for me.

I agree with you both and will mount the tank vertical; ease of install should not trump best practice. I like the ET expansion manifold you have Yanche.

WL110K will be plumbed in parallel with my Tarm - 202. I purchased a Taco 1.25” air scoop/air vent to install on the output side of the WL110K. The exiting Taco 1” air scoop/air vet will remain on the output side of the Tarm boiler which is a 1” tapping.
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun May 27, 2012 9:23 pm

Like said, if mounted upside down, how would the air bleed out. And remember, you should be pumping away from the expansion tank, NOT towards it, or pressure will fluctuate.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon May 28, 2012 9:41 am

Upside down, right side up, sideways, it shouldn't matter. That is a expansion tank that uses a prepressurized diaphram. The water will end up being completely against the diaphram in any position. I would try to keep it as close to your boiler as possible. The biggist volume of water would be the target of your protection I would think :)
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Mon May 28, 2012 10:57 am

Scottscoaled wrote:Upside down, right side up, sideways, it shouldn't matter. That is a expansion tank that uses a prepressurized diaphram. The water will end up being completely against the diaphram in any position.

That’s sort of how I looked at it but I’m a rookie installer/plumber diy’er and I wanted to bubble up any issues/concerns and vent thru those concerns...... all puns are intended :)

I’m going to follow the leads of kstone and Yanche and go the standard practice and hang the ET vertical. I like Yanche’s ET setup hanging from well supported hangers with his manifold ET expansion. I have some lengths of unistrut and ½” all thread just need to pick up the hanger clamps.

I have a question for Yanche on your ET manifold setup; what is you approx pipe lenght from the ET manifold input to your boiler/primary loop? Trying to get a feel for how far away I can mount the ET. Is that distance a concern? I'm thinking 4' to 5' for my install but I could place closer if needed.....In my head I think this would not be an install issue but.....

To answer AA130FIREMAN I will be pumping away from the ET......into the boiler returns. My WL110K install post LL110K in the basement.

I appreciate any and all comments thank you for the responses..........Dick
Last edited by dh1200s on Mon May 28, 2012 11:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: jim d On: Mon May 28, 2012 10:58 am

scotts correct as far as the orientation of the tank goes
jim d
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska//coaljck
Stove/Furnace Model: liberty// cj3

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue May 29, 2012 10:40 pm

dh1200s wrote:I have a question for Yanche on your ET manifold setup; what is you approx pipe lenght from the ET manifold input to your boiler/primary loop? Trying to get a feel for how far away I can mount the ET. Is that distance a concern? I'm thinking 4' to 5' for my install but I could place closer if needed.....In my head I think this would not be an install issue but.....

My boiler piping is a primary - secondary piping system. The air scoop is in this loop and the piping to the air tanks is from the bottom of the air scoop, the same place you would normally hang a single expansion tank. It's about 10 feet of 1/2 pipe total. But it's only the elevation difference that matters and that's about 5 feet.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed May 30, 2012 8:01 am

The last EFM I installed didn't have a lot of room around it, so I chose a floor-mounted Extrol and put it under the basement stairs. :)

http://www.pexuniverse.com/amtrol-extro ... nsion-tank
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Wed May 30, 2012 1:30 pm

Rob R. wrote:The last EFM I installed didn't have a lot of room around it, so I chose a floor-mounted Extrol and put it under the basement stairs. :)

http://www.pexuniverse.com/amtrol-extro ... nsion-tank


Hey Rob,

Yep that would have helped me in my planed pump board install area. I’m thinking now of moving my Pump Board from the planed install location to across the floor from my dual boiler setup pic attached of as built.
There would be approximately 12’ additional runs of 1.25” piping for source/return run’s from the boilers to the pump board. On that side of the room I have lots of wall space and could mount the tank vertical on a manifold system as Yanche has done for future if required.

I've been hung up on mounting the pump board below the flues, see attached pic. My current setup is just two zones and tying into those zones would be fairly straight forward and allow me to clean up the as built plumbing runs done by original builder.

Yanche thanks for the info on the expansion tank pipe run. I also found your post in this thread dated Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:16 pm http://nepacrossroads.com/about19333.html#p225955 a few minutes ago good info in that post.

Thank you gents………Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:57 pm

Real curious as to how the plumbing is going on your install? was looking over your manifold setup closely. Thinking of modifying mine to same setup. Like some more pics.... of course. Thanks. Bill
wilder11354
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
Coal Size/Type: nut or pea, anthracite
Other Heating: crown oil boiler, backup.if needed

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:12 am

wilder11354 wrote:Real curious as to how the plumbing is going on your install?


Real slow Bill I have not done much lately. Moved the pump board off the work bench after mounting some 4*4 post anchored to the basement floor/floor joist. Source is on the left side return on the right.
I pressured up on the work bench to 30 PSI for an air leak check. I had a small leak on the valve stem of the ball valve that sits between the closely spaced tee pri/sec connections on the left bottom of the pump board. 3 weeks now and holding at 30 PSI, gauge and air fill port will come off shortly.

Still need to mount other components, pump control, fill valve, expansion tank, purge/drain valve and maybe some temp monitoring wells at the source/return lines on the board.
More pics/info. at the LL line section of the forum LL110K in the basement.

Have a happy 4th…….Dick
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dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:11 pm

How has the install been going? like to see some pics of it, plumbing manifold you made, and such. Do you have it up and running yet?
wilder11354
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
Coal Size/Type: nut or pea, anthracite
Other Heating: crown oil boiler, backup.if needed

Re: Expansion tank mounting question.

PostBy: dh1200s On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:16 am

Hey Bill,

I'll post some info on my install thread.
dh1200s
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL-110
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS-Tarm 202
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000