LP prices relatively low at this time....

LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:47 am

Just an FYI in case you use it as a backup for your coal appliance or other places in your house....

I recently had to call around for prices to get the propane tanks at our church filled. Well, not quite filled as we only have so much money at any one time to spend and a couple of the propane companies are nice enough to deliver for less than a complete fill up. I was pleasantly surprised that our price was $1.57 / gallon. We get to shop for price because we own the tanks and they do give us a small break in price because of being a church. I asked about the price to deliver to a residential "owned" tank it was $1.85 / gal for delivery to a 1000 gallon tank that was at about 20%.

We use LP for the cooktop, hot water and dryer as well as a seldom used furnace that is a backup for the coal stoker. I was thinking of squeezing a third year out of what is left in our tank, but with prices like this I may get a delivery this summer.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:09 am

Last time I called around $3.29/gal was the best price I could get for <500 gallons per year. :shock:
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: oros35 On: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:19 am

That's around what I paid back in September for about 400gal. One tank should last 2 or so years for me.
oros35
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Stove/Furnace Make: Smith & Anthony Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: #215 Hub Heater


Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: 69dartgt On: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:10 pm

According to my brother, who works for a local propane company, the price for LP should stay relatively cheap in the Northeast area. One of the byproducts of the refinery of natural gas is used in propane. And cost of LP is a result of all the drilling in PA/OH/NY. Guess we will see how long the price stays down.
69dartgt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vigilante
Stove/Furnace Model: I

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:18 am

After calling my supplier and telling them I was calling every propane guy in the area to check their pricing, they agreed to fill my tank for $1.85 per gallon. I was happy to save $2 per gallon, but it confirmed my suspicion that the margin on propane is large.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:54 am

It used to be that 55% of propane production comes from separating it out of natural gas, and 45% comes from the process of refining crude oil. If this is ratio is shifting toward NG, that combined with fracking and the lowest NG prices in decades would be the reason for $1.85 per gal. propane.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:01 am

I looked up wholesale propane prices a few weeks ago...$1.40/gal or a little less.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:16 am

Rob R. wrote:I looked up wholesale propane prices a few weeks ago...$1.40/gal or a little less.


If you are paying $300/ton for coal and $1.85/gal. for propane, and your coal stove, furnace, or boiler is 60% efficient (real world), and your ultra modern condensing propane furnace or boiler is 94% efficient, the breakdown is as follows for one million "realized" BTU's:

Coal
13,350 BTU's per pound x 0.60 = 8,010 realized BTU's per pound
1,000,000 BTU/ 8,010 BTU/lb. = 125 lbs.
$300/ton / 2,000 lbs./ton = $0.15 per pound
125 lbs. x $0.15/lb. = $18.75 per million BTU's

Propane
91,600 BTU's per gallon x 0.94 = 86,100 BTU's per gallon realized
1,000,000 BTU / 86,100 BTU/gal. = 11.614 gal.
$1.85/gal. x 11.614 gal = $21.49 per million BTU's

At $1.61/gal. propane and anthracite are equivalent in cost to the end user, provided that the end user has a condensing propane furnace or boiler rated at 94% efficiency, and the end user is paying $300 per ton for anthracite, and is seeing 60% overall system efficiency. The gap is narrowing for those of us who do not live in coal country and must therefore pay high prices for anthracite coal.

The more I go over the numbers, the more convinced I become that my real world BTU yield (overall system yield) from coal is 8,000 BTU's per pound. Prior to actually using it, I had been assuming that I would get 10,000 BTU's per pound.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:37 am

Rob R. wrote:After calling my supplier and telling them I was calling every propane guy in the area to check their pricing, they agreed to fill my tank for $1.85 per gallon.

I don't own my tank, and I get deliveries every month or so in winter. Been pre-paying with the same company for years, but now I have to call every summer and negotiate the price down to what others are offering without any negotiation. That's starting to get old, so another year I'll probably tell them to come and get their tank. Seems like an odd way for them to treat their long-term customers.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: gizmo On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:19 am

I use Propane for summer hot water and a generator.I
had 600 gallons delivered last Wednesday because the
price started to creep up.I paid $1.10 a gallon.It was less
than $1.00 a few weeks ago.This will last 5 to 6 Years.
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:21 am

gizmo wrote:I use Propane for summer hot water and a generator.I
had 600 gallons delivered last Wednesday because the
price started to creep up.I paid $1.10 a gallon.It was less
than $1.00 a few weeks ago.This will last 5 to 6 Years.


Wow! At that price it would hardly make sense for anyone living outside of a 50 mile radius from anthracite country's ground zero region to burn coal.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: gizmo On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:25 am

Coal is my only source of heat.I burn it knowing it pisses off
some of the loosers running our country.
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:51 am

rberq wrote:
Rob R. wrote:After calling my supplier and telling them I was calling every propane guy in the area to check their pricing, they agreed to fill my tank for $1.85 per gallon.

I don't own my tank, and I get deliveries every month or so in winter. Been pre-paying with the same company for years, but now I have to call every summer and negotiate the price down to what others are offering without any negotiation. That's starting to get old, so another year I'll probably tell them to come and get their tank. Seems like an odd way for them to treat their long-term customers.


Same here, if I hadn't called them to negotiate it would have been $4+ per gallon. There is a new propane company in my area that is taking a lot of business from the "big guys", and as soon as I mentioned them to my supplier ("big guy") they countered with the $1.85 price. My tank has been here for 10 years, so I guess they decided it was better to reduce their margin than lose a customer.

A friend of mine heats with propane, and was just offered a pre-buy price of $2.29/gal for this winter...much better than last year, but a far cry from my cost with coal.

lsayre wrote:Wow! At that price it would hardly make sense for anyone living outside of a 50 mile radius from anthracite country's ground zero region to burn coal.


It all depends on your delivered cost and system efficiency. Even way up here by Canada you can get a TT load on the ground for $220 per ton.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:14 am

When buying a TT load coal supply that could last a couple years or more, your price is "Locked In"...so, I guess, maybe a HUGE LP tank may give that same effect...but w/ unstable LP prices...what will be the cost to refill each time???

No doubt there will be a "LP glut" with all the new well drilling, but, cheap pricing attracts new consumers, and I'm referring to the large industrial types. Then, eventually, the LP market will readjust upward again. You have been warned! :!:

Coal, as a heat source, is a well kept secret...let's keep it that way. ;)

Just my .02 cents worth. :roll:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: LP prices relatively low at this time....

PostBy: gizmo On: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:37 pm

Could you even imangine your life without coal.I
never was able to tinker with me propane furnace
when I had that.This is my therapy.
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE