It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:11 pm

Yup. My wife called me the other day and said she heard something up the chimney. I blew it off as crazy woman talk. But this evening I was over by the stove and saw what appeared to be metal shavings under the throat. I grabbed a flashlight and shined it up the 316Ti liner and it was like looking at stars. The bottom 2' of the liner was riddled with pin holes. My wife, wasn't crazy.

I seriously thought I'd of gotten at least one more season out of it. But, it is a pretty old liner having bought it in 2006 for my wood stove. I attribute all the rain we had last summer and so far this spring/summer to the absolute demise of the liner. When I told the wife about it this evening she says, 'Can it wait till we come back from vacation in two weeks?'

Thing is, I don't want to put another liner in it if I don't need to.

So, here's what I'm looking at. It's a 16' stone/mortar/brick chimney fireplace. The current throat plate is shot, I need a new one. There is a piece of slate on top of the chimney, 16' up the chimney sits 3' off the peak of the house. It's actually dead center of the house on the north side.There is terracotta near the top but I cut it flush with the slate top. But it's recessed into the chimney about 3-6". There is a smoke shelf; I removed several bricks from it to get the liner past it and I'm assuming that I'd have to extend my "pipe" past it as well.

My questions are, do I need to extend the terracotta past the slate top?

I know I need to make a new throat plate but I've tried...I'm not very good at it. So, anyone have any ideas on how to make one so it actually fits? I was planning on using cement board. Is this bad?

Thirdly, anyone in Sussex County, NJ whose had experience with this wanna come give me a hand or at the very least look at it and direct me to what is needed? Cause I'm not really sure what to do. There will be beer and grilling. I'll take some pictures this week and get them up here. Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

We'll be leaving for South Carolina on either the 15th or 16th for a week then the liner will be pulled out. Glad I've discovered this now and not the day I fire up for the season.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: Berlin On: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Glad to hear you caught it before next season. I hope more people that recommend stainless with coal (including stove dealers) will look at this post.

You don't need to extend the tile past the slate crown, but you may want to (or even use a chimney pot) to extend the height of your short chimney. If the stack was the proper height you wouldn't need a draft inducer. If the flue exit was even a bit higher you could probably ditch your draft inducer. Regardless, on a short stack such as yours even if you didn't want to use a chimney pot or extend the chase itself, I would at least slide another tile in and cut it to exit at least 1' above the slate crown, this won't look bad and it will give you some benefit in your situation.

Were I you, I would avoid running anything through the fireplace at all. I would cut a hole above the firebox neatly to install a thimble either where the first tile begins or JUST below it and install the stove that way. If you wish to install it through the fireplace again, I wouldn't necessarily run anything to the first tile liner. I've had success using a 10gauge or heavier damper plate (in place of your damper - as a blockoff plate) and cutting the desired size hole in it with an extended flange welded to it. Seal it to the damper with high temp silicone and connect your stove to the flange on the plate. Whether the exhaust gasses go into the smoke chamber or are held captive in a pipe until they reach the first liner is insignificant in its difference. Running the liner to the tile became standard with wood inserts because any other installation practice would fill the smoke chamber with flammable creosote, with coal this is not an issue. You will be better off avoiding using stainless liners in any situation where they could rot and collapse blocking the flue etc; Even running on to the first tile is a bad idea.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:53 pm

I have no internal damper. It looks like it was removed years ago. I think there is a small metal bracket that is all left. I don't remember because I haven't looked up in the chimney in a very long time. Also, as much as I'd like to cut a hole into the hearth face into the chimney; again, I don't think it's going to be easily possible. My fire place/chimney is not a standard brick and mortar deal. It's stone (IE: rocks) and cement.

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This is the chimney from the outside. The tarp is covering the chimney cap and top of the liner.

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The bungie cord is just below the slate top. Please ignore the mess and the several different paint colors. This house is an on going project/disaster.

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That is what my fireplace looks like from inside the house. I'm not entirely sure removing any of the stone to get access to the chimney is possible without destroying the chimney.

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This is the plate on the throat of the hearth. Once I get the liner out I'll remove the plate and take some pictures of the smoke shelf and chimney.

When I say the new pipe I don't mean a new liner. I'm just thinking the single wall pipe that exits the back of my stove. I thought I'd have to get it past the smoke shelf? Is this not the case? If not then obviously I need a new plate for the throat as the one that is on there is butchered.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator


Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: Ctyankee On: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:18 pm

check out...

http://www.cannedheat.com/images/Pro%20 ... 5B1%5D.pdf

the fasNclamp products on page 70 in the pdf might be useful as a replacement for the plate.
Ctyankee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503 insert
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:49 pm

The PDF is only 34 pages. Am I missing something?

*EDIT*

Oh, I think I see it. Page 70 connector sealing kit.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:11 am

Ctyankee,

I was flipping through the PDF you linked here last night and was wondering why I wasn't seeing that part mentioned or listed on any of their dealer websites. Then it occurred to me that the link you posted was from 2000. Their new product catalog doesn't list the part from page 70. I'm going to email them to see if they still make them but I don't have high-hopes.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:45 pm

IMG_20120608_162310.jpg

This is the plate on the throat of the hearth. Once I get the liner out I'll remove the plate and take some pictures of the smoke shelf and chimney.

When I say the new pipe I don't mean a new liner. I'm just thinking the single wall pipe that exits the back of my stove. I thought I'd have to get it past the smoke shelf? Is this not the case? If not then obviously I need a new plate for the throat as the one that is on there is butchered.[/quote]


You don't need to get past the smoke shelf. Securely install a new HEAVIER gauge plate (10ga or so) and have the appropriate size hole with male flange welded on it. Then take your galv or black smoke pipe and come straight down to a "T" for easy cleanout of flyash and cap the bottom and extend the pipe to the appliance. Simple, easy, safe, and pretty inexpensive. I would still recommend adding that 1' of tile liner above the slate crown for better draft however.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:03 pm

Thank you, Berlin. I'm going to add a piece to the crown as you've suggested.

I'll have a new plate made up. Thank you so much.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:35 pm

Yeah stainless & coal go together like myself & alcohol with liberals around. :box:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:44 pm

THAT is not a mess!...
You could core the rock face if you want to...
I would spend my money on getting more height on the chimney first...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:30 am

I haven't had an opportunity to look at the chimney yet. Too much other stuff going on. It'd be nice to have the chimney heightened. Unfortunately I don't know anything about masonry work or how to do that. Not to mention cash is once again in short supply what with the recent car repairs.

I'm hoping to get a chance to look at the chimney in a few weeks.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

I went and picked up four 16x16 chimney blocks and two 8x8 terracota flue liners. I just hope that's the size I need. So, I'll go from a 16' chimney to 20'. It's going to be ugly as sin but as long as it works.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:23 pm

it's most likely an 8/12 or 12/12 flue tile. if it's 12/12, just use 8/12 tile and 8/12 chimney blocks. OR just get some matching (i'm assuming) 12/12 tile and use hollow core 8x4x16 blocks (otherwise known as 4" block) (usually less than $1 each - and lighter) and wrap the appropriate size tile liner, 4 blocks will wrap a 12/12 tile liner perfectly - and at that height using 4" cored block will be easier.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: europachris On: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:54 pm

SMITTY wrote:Yeah stainless & coal go together like myself & alcohol with liberals around. :box:


LOL, we were born of the same cloth, SMITTY. :P I have to stay away from any source of news while enjoying some Buffalo Trace bourbon or Templeton Rye. Fortunately, I normally don't drink around liberals...but I can sniff them out like a beagle on a biscuit...and then the fun starts. :devil:
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: It's happened!!! And only two seasons in...

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:17 pm

So, here is the chimney block and flue liner. My brother is coming over next weekend to help me. Neither of us know nothing about masonry work so it's going to be interesting in the least.
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I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator