Monsanto

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:57 pm

samhill wrote:But I thought most here (cons) loved & cherished big business after all they should be held high on a pedestal as a job creator & given subsidies & tax breaks.

Wrong again Sam. Conservatives believe that government should provide a level playing field and prevent monopoly. No tax breaks or special treatment. Let the market decide what is best, not Washington. It is the arrogant ignorance of the left that has and is continuing to bankrupt the country.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:41 pm

franco b wrote:
samhill wrote:But I thought most here (cons) loved & cherished big business after all they should be held high on a pedestal as a job creator & given subsidies & tax breaks.

Wrong again Sam. Conservatives believe that government should provide a level playing field and prevent monopoly. No tax breaks or special treatment. Let the market decide what is best, not Washington. It is the arrogant ignorance of the left that has and is continuing to bankrupt the country.


George Bush had to end the free market system in order to save it. Such was his confidence in the free market. And lest we blame it all on him, both Houses of Congress gave him everything he asked for. Then there were the bail-outs, TARP, QE1, QE2, etc... (much of it under Obama). None of this will change under Romney, as the Federal Reserve is your true master. Perhaps this is what I've been saying all along. The Republicans merely use (or rather abuse) the word conservative, they do not under any circumstances live it or intend for you to be capable of living under it. For that you need the Libertarians, or at the very least Ron Paul.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:06 pm

Franco, if Cons truly believe what you say then why haven't they done it? Look over the last 5 or 6 decades where the Cons have been in office the most, the record doesn't play like you say.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75


Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:11 pm

Isayre, I won't say that RP doesn't have some good ideas but I think he also has some terrible ideas. Do you really think he could get much done without help from either side? Everybody always promises all kind of things that they know aren't even within their powers, RP is the same in that respect.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:12 pm

samhill wrote:Franco, if Cons truly believe what you say then why haven't they done it? Look over the last 5 or 6 decades where the Cons have been in office the most, the record doesn't play like you say.

What conservatives have been in office besides Reagan?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:23 pm

Don't want to get into that but what do you think Reagan did to earn hjs Con Sainthood? Sorry double post.
Last edited by samhill on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:28 pm

Don't want to get into that but what do you think Reagan did to earn his Con Sainthood? Franco, I just clanced up at the title & we're getting way far off subject. IMO Monsanto SUX but it is so deeply entreanched in DC that it would take an act of Congress (that it & others Own) to do anything so there isn't anything going to happen.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: cokehead On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:52 pm

samhill wrote:Franco, if Cons truly believe what you say then why haven't they done it? Look over the last 5 or 6 decades where the Cons have been in office the most, the record doesn't play like you say.


Most of the "Cons" are just politicians. I've lost all confidence that are government is capable of doing the right thing. "Special" interests rule. Screw the average people. Before you cheer for the Dems I think they are just as bad if not worst but it is all shades of gray. They can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned at this point. I don't know what the answer is. It is going to be a bumpy ride. One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. :bang: My head hurts. MAYBE when enough people realize how bad we are getting screwed they will clean house but I doubt it.
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Yep - both sides suck. Politicians will ruin .... and probably cause the end of this country ... if we let them.

I don't expect much from Romney, but the very first step is getting the current breed of ultra-corrupt anti-American communist leftists out of office. Normal Americans are finally waking up and organizing like the left has been doing for 100 years now. They've got quite a head start, and will be tough to beat. They've infiltrated media, popular culture, movies, & education, so it's going to be quite a task to get all that back in the hands of NORMAL Americans. We managed to out-organize them in WI, so lets hope we can carry that to November. It will take years to undo the mess they've created, but getting this clown & his minions out is just the beginning. We have LOTS of work to do.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:05 am

Like I said, I agree in part with you both but Smitty it makes it kind of hard when you start off with both sides & then switch to it's all one sides fault. As with us all we tend to go with the one we think is not as bad as the other. It sure would be the best if we could throw them all out & start all over again. I have to go with what I know got us into the recession & not trying the same thing over, I'm lucky enough to have a small pension & SS but I ain't dumb enough to crap where I eat, SS has worked for like 70 years or so despite both sides robbing it blind & the first of July my medicare kicks in which will help so I don't want to change any of that.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:13 am

Sam, I would be willing to give up any claim I might have on SS and MC right now if it changed nothing for you and also exempt my children from paying in when the time comes.

Saying "it's been working so far" is incredibly short sighted.

How long did Bernie Madoff keep his scam running and he couldn't even print his own money!
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:36 pm

Jpete, the only thing wrong with SS is that the houses could use it & throw in a worthless IOU one of which has never been cashed to my knowledge, it's only in trouble now because of the deep recession, less money being paid in & Obama cutting the tax. They want to do away with it so all of a sudden they reduced the deficit by 4 trillion. If 70 some odd years is short sighted then we must all be blind, if every young starting out couple would have the ability to set aside X amt. of dollars & never use it with a gee guaranteed return on their investment in say what stocks or bonds or a mixture. That sure sounds realistic to me, I always had extra money laying around when I was raising a family :roll: , every divorce would cut your retirement in half at best. Some without heirs die, who would get that or would it simply evaporate? Just like now why do poor have to pay when they use their investments but the wealthy get little to no tax bite? Same thing in my book just called by a different name, if they lose they get to write it off if a small guy losses that's just too bad. Once again way off subject, I got to start looking at that first before typing. I'll submit it so I didn't waste my finger exercise.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: xaos On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:21 pm

franco b wrote:
samhill wrote:But I thought most here (cons) loved & cherished big business after all they should be held high on a pedestal as a job creator & given subsidies & tax breaks.

Wrong again Sam. Conservatives believe that government should provide a level playing field and prevent monopoly. No tax breaks or special treatment. Let the market decide what is best, not Washington. It is the arrogant ignorance of the left that has and is continuing to bankrupt the country.



I used to think I had Conservative values, I like most don't like paying taxes. I would like taxes to be as low as possible but I realise that taxes are the price we pay for having a civilization.
I believe wholeheartedly in the rule of law and that nobody, nobody should be exempt from the law.
I believe in civility, tact and restraint. All old-fashioned values.
I believe in the rights of man and of a woman.
I believe that mixing faith and government brings out the worst in both and that faith is best served when it does not have to compromise as politics requires.
I believe that for one group to have a right which others do not makes it a special right.
I believe that capitalism is a fantastic tool for creating wealth but people cheat and so, we need rules.

So, I used to think of myself as having conservative values. Because I considered that all of those were conservative values.

And then I grew up and I realized I was actually a liberal. Because while conservatives pay lip service to those ideas, they actively work against them in practice.

So I now believe these are neither liberal nor conservative values.

No one likes paying taxes and everyone wants them to be as low as possible - liberals are willing to pay more because they think government should provide certain services while conservatives think those services should be provided by private parties and taxes should be lower.

Both liberals and conservatives believe in the rule of law - liberals recognize that the justice system is not fair and that there are unjust laws which should be fought and the the juries should be able to use jury nullification in cases where the law is not just. Liberals also think that the drug treatment and rehabilitation should be part of our justice system. Conservatives think that the justice system is fair, that if a government makes a law it is just, and that the goal of the justice system should be punishment and retribution.

Civility, tact, and restraint are civilized traits, old fashioned or not. There are cases of politicians getting into fist fights on the floor of the House and Senate in the 1800's. Civility in politics has often been lacking. The lack of civility in current politics has more to do with the psychopaths running the right wing than the ideology of conservatives.

True liberals and true conservatives believe that religion should stay out of politics. People with power know that they can exploit religious people to believe that they should not be separate.

Liberals believe that certain groups have institutionalized rights that others have been denied for years and that government should help level the playing field for those people. Conservatives fail to see the inherent privilege that comes with being white, male, straight, Christian, etc.

Liberals believe that capitalism is a complete failure for some things (health care, for example) and therefore those things should be taken out of the capitalist system for the good of all. Conservatives think that rules block unlimited wealth and that there is nothing wrong with unlimited wealth while failing to see that the unlimited wealth tends to be gained at the expense of the majority of mankind.
xaos
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker 1
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:08 pm

Spoken like a true liberal. Too many ms-conceptions to address.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Monsanto

PostBy: xaos On: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:27 pm

franco b wrote:Spoken like a true liberal. Too many ms-conceptions to address.


Thank You.. But,
Flattery will get you nowhere..
xaos
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker 1
Coal Size/Type: Rice