Communism and Capitalism

Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:09 pm

I don't recall any charity hospitals but when your young you don't really know, most hospitals are non-profits. If they can't turn people away then that's where much of the problem starts. People use ERs as family doctors which just increases the cost of medical service for everyone else. Pay now or pay later it still ends up on the average Joe or Jane that tries to do everything right.
If you remember just how did a charity hospital work, where did their funding come from?
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:56 pm

samhill wrote:OK but what do you propose happens to those that can't or won't pay, should they be treated or not? Also I never considered a fine as violence, just like violating a traffic law, you get fined if you get caught, it's a result of your actions now if they drug you out of the car & smacked you around then it would be violence.


What if you don't pay the fine?

As was pointed out, there used to exist church hospitals and/or charity hospitals.

The 1971 HMO Act was the beginning of the end for them.

There are a couple small ones left here, but nothing the size of the for profit hospitals.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:10 pm

samhill wrote:I don't recall any charity hospitals but when your young you don't really know, most hospitals are non-profits. If they can't turn people away then that's where much of the problem starts. People use ERs as family doctors which just increases the cost of medical service for everyone else. Pay now or pay later it still ends up on the average Joe or Jane that tries to do everything right.
If you remember just how did a charity hospital work, where did their funding come from?


People use the ER as a family doctor BECAUSE of insurance, not the lack of it. It was EASY to just go to the hospital when you were sick, rather than take a little responsibility for themselves.

They eventually had to add a premium over and above your normal premiums to prevent people from doing it.

We certainly weren't rich when I was a kid, but I had some health issues that required some specialists and without coverage for it, my mother tells me it was $20 every two weeks to make sure I didn't have cancer or some other mystery disease.

Medical bills didn't automatically mean bankruptcy before the government got in bed with the insurance industry.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:15 pm

I never gave thought as to how charity hospitals were funded back when I was young enough for them to still be in operation. Someone older than me would need to chime in here.
Last edited by lsayre on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:53 pm

Don't know how it is where you are Jpete but here or at least around Pittsburgh the far greater % of ER visitors are without Ins. or a family doctor & many of those even call call an AM-bu-lance to get a ride there. Before you even ask my wife was an ER nurse for over 30 years so she knows a bit about it.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:24 pm

samhill wrote:Don't know how it is where you are Jpete but here or at least around Pittsburgh the far greater % of ER visitors are without Ins. or a family doctor & many of those even call call an AM-bu-lance to get a ride there. Before you even ask my wife was an ER nurse for over 30 years so she knows a bit about it.


And my wife works on an "AM-bu-lance" so I know exactly what you are talking about.

And that is the kind of activity the government has encouraged by mandating care, and by taking over the responsibility of through programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

The question has to be, what did people do before these programs?

Is there any evidence that thousands of people died in the street because of the lack of insurance coverage? I've never seen any.

Charity hospitals were run through donations or philanthropy.

Locally, Hasbro Childrens Hospital runs through money from the Hassenfeld brothers of the Hasbro toy company headquartered in Pawtucket RI. I know people like to demonize evil rich people, but without Hasbro, two of my children would be in rough shape and my friends kid would likely be dead.

Once a year, the area radio stations hold an on air fund raiser for them which I have gladly donated to.

Do they take insurance? Of course. One hospital can't buck the weight of the Federal government's bad policies. But owing to their location in the city, I would suspect that a large percentage of their patients lack insurance and the hospital seems to be doing fine.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:36 pm

I'll tell you what Jpete there are very few free care hospitals, the Shriner's in Erie was in deep trouble & if I recall correctly they were annexed by another hospital but are keeping the name. Those type of places can no longer afford to keep the doctors & up grade equipment. How much have you donated to that hospital you mention?
Maybe not too many died in the streets simply because there were less homeless & poor, medical care was far less expensive & family doctors actually came to your home if needed. Back then people paid their bills & there weren't credit cards & collection agencies. The people & the times were different, most likely the family doc drove a ford or chevy & had his office in his home.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:48 pm

samhill wrote:I'll tell you what Jpete there are very few free care hospitals, the Shriner's in Erie was in deep trouble & if I recall correctly they were annexed by another hospital but are keeping the name. Those type of places can no longer afford to keep the doctors & up grade equipment. How much have you donated to that hospital you mention?
Maybe not too many died in the streets simply because there were less homeless & poor, medical care was far less expensive & family doctors actually came to your home if needed. Back then people paid their bills & there weren't credit cards & collection agencies. The people & the times were different, most likely the family doc drove a ford or chevy & had his office in his home.


Don't you see that insurance and the government promoted idea that you have a "right" to health care is why places like the Shriners can't get funding?

We're all led to believe that it's the government's "responsibility" to fund hospitals. And that's the way the government wants it.

I give to several charities. What ever I can whenever I can. Not always as much as I'd like, but I have to eat first.
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Re: Communism and Capitalism

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:11 am

I'm sorry Jpete, I don't know of any Gov./hospital ties except for the VA & some specialized ones for the insane for example. If anything they tend to work against one another but there are ties & ownership between some Ins. Co.s & hospitals.
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