Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

samhill wrote:Jpete, we pay for everything that our tax dollar is spent on if we use it or not. I think it would be safe to say that at some point in time we will all use HC.

If you don't have a car, do you pay auto insurance and road tax?

If you live in an apartment, do you pay home owners insurance?

Hell, even if you own a home, you aren't even required to have home owners insurance as long as you don't have a mortgage.

While you are correct Sam, that as a rule, we all pay for government one way or another, we don't all have to buy certain types of insurance.

And this health insurance bill is about exactly that. Forcing you to purchase a product from a private corporation or be deprived of property without due process.

That is pretty much the definition of fascism.

Dann757 wrote:Go ahead and explain how this will encourage business.

This is business killer, if I have 49 employees and need one more is that one employee worth $500K in expense? That's one more person without a job and I'll find it hard to expand my business.

Let's say I have business with 50+ employees that I will now have to supply insurance for, if I'm already operating on slim margins that is going to drastically effect the cost of my product. Might as well ship the jobs off to China

This is typical of left leaning governance. I've been dealing with this ever since I started to understand politics here in MA. Basically, they just legislate - voters be damned - because they actually believe they know better than the people. The problem is, they don't have ANY shred of common sense, and fail to see the collateral damage their "wonderful" ideas will cause.

I'm just a dumb truck driver/mechanic, and I can plainly see how Richard is 100% correct. Who the hell is going to want to run a business in this climate???

Don't forget who pays for all those that get totally free H.C. now. Like I said if your gonna do away with this or any Gov. plan then do away with all Gov. involvement & see how long that will last. Once again this has been a many decades old problem but somehow like everything else it just popped up.

samhill wrote:Don't forget who pays for all those that get totally free H.C. now. Like I said if your gonna do away with this or any Gov. plan then do away with all Gov. involvement & see how long that will last. Once again this has been a many decades old problem but somehow like everything else it just popped up.

I'm not sure anyone is calling for a scorched earth approach. There have been ideas to lower costs that never get any traction but by saying "they" (meaning repubs) and we want grandma thrown off a cliff etc...etc..makes for great talking points for the libs.

I never could (well I do but) understand why Health Insurance wasn't allowed to be like car insurance which of course would create a much more competitive market and lower costs across the board( shot down like a duck )

Tort reform, (again shot down and po pooed do death) would stop preditorial Lawyers from driving up costs, over testing by Doctors to cover their asses..etc. I'm not saying ditch Malpractice oversight, infact when it came about I was glad. But of course like anything else when a powerful Lawyer Lobby gets their meaty little claws in there it's going to turn into the monster that it is.

The biggest problem I have is now ANY law concocted by Congress that has any monetary value (that would be almost everything no?) will now be known as a "TAX"...constitution be damned, the firewall has been breached for good.

And of course Katheen Sebilious is in effect the most powerful unelected offical in America to date, she could make Bloomberg look like a poser. Don't think she's got alot more things shock us to our very core, it's just she won't act until after the election becuase like it or not her mandate to the Catholics wounded her boss more than they'd like to admit.

jpete wrote:What other thing does the government force you to purchase simply because you breathe?

Roads. Nuclear weapons. Aircraft carriers. Schools. National parks. Congress (oops! Can't afford my own, I'm not in that income bracket.)

rberq wrote:

jpete wrote:What other thing does the government force you to purchase simply because you breathe?

Roads. Nuclear weapons. Aircraft carriers. Schools. National parks. Congress (oops! Can't afford my own, I'm not in that income bracket.)

Uhmm no. The Constitution states the Government must provide for the Defense, you pay for your right to exisist in what was once considered a free country providing the Government with means to muster a common defense against all enemies foriegn and domestic.

To imply that Government can TAX you into submission is in the Constitution was more than a stretch. Albeit it's now water under the bridge, and I can tell you're one of those who believe in cradle to grave Government, good for you, just don't expect everyone to agree with you and you'll never convince me or anyone else that your opinion is anymore valid than those of us who disagree with Statists.

rberq wrote:

jpete wrote:What other thing does the government force you to purchase simply because you breathe?

Roads. Nuclear weapons. Aircraft carriers. Schools. National parks. Congress (oops! Can't afford my own, I'm not in that income bracket.)

If roads are paid for with anything but gasoline tax, then they are being dishonest(imagine that!) and if I don't buy gas, I don't pay for roads.

If I don't own property(I don't) then I don't pay for schools.

The rest of the stuff is a good point, though I disagree with the implementation.

But I suppose if you want to go down this rod, why stop at health insurance?

I was taught the only "necessities" in life are "food, shelter, and clothing"

Why not mandate everyone buy a house and penalize anyone that doesn't? Or mandate everyone buy a new article of clothing every week and "healthy" food(as determined by Mr. Bloomberg)?

Ed.A wrote:.... but by saying "they" (meaning repubs) and we want grandma thrown off a cliff etc...etc..makes for great talking points for the libs.

For the record those things are being said by both sides.

Richard S. wrote:

Ed.A wrote:.... but by saying "they" (meaning repubs) and we want grandma thrown off a cliff etc...etc..makes for great talking points for the libs.

For the record those things are being said by both sides.

Agreed,
but I never heard Repubs saying liberals wanted elderly to die etc... the hyperbole from the left knows no bounds. Wassermanshultz...name one on the opposing side that even comes close.

If you all are so terribly upset there are always other countries you could go to, well not alot but at least one.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/esc ... d=16682421

samhill wrote:If you all are so terribly upset there are always other countries you could go to, well not alot but at least one.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/esc ... d=16682421

No I believe we still have the right to use the legislative process to bring this under some semblence of control. I still love my counrty and have never thought about leaving it, hell I live in the one of the Bluest States in the country, and I've never threatened to move out of it either. Of course unlike the mandate TAX, I can drive to lower tax states for my shopping, gas and entertainment, which I do every week.

You see, only Cowards run away...like the Democrats did in Wisconsin.

Ed.A wrote:You see, only Cowards run away...like the Democrats did in Wisconsin.

Aha, and like Pelosi did the other day hand in hand with politicians that all had a look of extreme indignation about holder being held accountable, but that's another topic.

sam I looked at your article, with all its left wind indignation. The justification being all the socialist countries that force healthcare on their citizens. If you look at it from my point of view, how is that European socialism working out for the rest of the world? They are all bankrupt!! Canada has a population of what? 20 million people? Look at some of the Canadian blogs, their regular population is outraged at their liberal immigration policies, half of China and the muslim world is being gladly invited in by the liberal politicians there.

I'm trying to understand the liberal mentality and not continue to embarass myself with my anger reactions as much. I'll work to try and understand your points of view.

I look at this as , I will soon have to pay a penalty tax as a sole proprietor. That tax will evaporate into the world of government welfare to the very populations that are scrambling to get a free ride and/or get a foothold in this country. I have plenty of injuries I'm walking around with, I guess I have too much pride to walk in to an emergency room and wait behind two dozen illegal aliens for free healthcare. I just took a cyst off my skin with a nail clipper hahahahah
So I don't like to hear the justification that I will be the burden on healthcare, the burden is already the illegals and the "welfare scum".

Bob, I get your point , but its the rampant out of control socialism that does not bode well with hard working Americans. You mentioned nuclear weapons, do you think we could maintain any shred of national security without them? Barry does, unless he has an ulterior motive.

So I will try to engage in intelligent conversation until Barry shuts off the internet.

There is nothing as easy as denouncing. It don't take much to see that something is wrong, but it takes some eyesight to see what will put it right again.
- Will Rogers

Dann, just pointing out that we are the only modernized nation that has become a follower when we used to be a leader in just about everything. I recall other walkouts in Congress not too long ago, the HC Bill isn't the best that could be but it's a starting point, HC has been an issue for every Pres. for over half a century, I think it was Nixon that first came up with a mandate, everything old is new again.