Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: cokehead On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:21 pm

When the original intent of the founders is summarily ignored by the highest court of the federal government, we are in deep *censored*. Any illusions I had that The Constitution means anything to the crew in Washington has been shattered. They just make the rules up as they go as the political winds will allow. The ideological foundation of the nation is gone replaced by relativism and fascist ideals. Big money rules. Obama care is just one more nail in the coffin of this nation. Sounds nice on the surface but as individuals loose control of the fruits of there labor incrementally it is destructive to motivation. Destroy motivation of the productive people, you are on the way to unmanageable debt, economic collapse, poverty, and social unrest which will result in a police state where the worker bees will be all equally unfree. It won't happen overnight but it will happen. The legal tools of a police state are in place. Just wait till they are implemented. Some brainy person said something to the effect, a people will get the kind of government they deserve. It is a harsh statement but I think we will see those words come to life.

I'm sure some of you will celebrate this court ruling. Enjoy the moment.
Last edited by Richard S. on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split to it's own topic and added new title.
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Re: Obamacare Upheld by supreme Court

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:45 pm

The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld nearly all of President Obama's health care overhaul, in a landmark ruling that will have sweeping consequences for the economy, the election and America's health care system.

In a 5-4 decision, the court ruled as constitutional the so-called individual mandate requiring most Americans to obtain health insurance starting in 2014.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06 ... z1z6hpJjcZ
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Re: Obamacare Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:09 pm

Seems this was upheld because it's a "tax" as it was argued before them on that premise.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 2052048242

When Congress was debating for months and months, the Obama team argued that the individual mandate "is not a tax." This was to spare the White House the embarrassment of admitting that President Obama was violating right out of the box his sacred promise not to tax anyone earning less than $200,000. According to Congressional figures 70% to 75% of the "tax" falls on those who earn less than $200,000 per year, and that is 8 million non-rich people. So Mr. Obama argued this was a mandate and a fine to enforce the requirement to buy health care.

But then in front of the Supreme Court and lower courts, the Obama legal team shifted strategies and argued it was a tax after all. The Supreme Court has traditionally and regrettably granted unlimited taxing authority to the Congress and they did so again on Tuesday.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: Ed.A On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:43 pm

The precident has been set. They are now free to tax behavior, such as "Breathing" ( Don't laugh, we exhale a dangerous and legitimately regulated gas according to the EPA and supported by the SCOTUS.)

Some will say an unintended result of this ruling others will say it was what Obama and Pelosi were trying to achieve.
No matter what now, repeal or alter, it won't make a difference, the power of the Government just took a quantum leap.

This is prolly the worst ruling to come out of the supreme court since Wickard v. Filburn which caused this whole mess to even come into exisistence.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:55 pm

You may laugh, smirk or try to apologize away, what has just happened. This is the last blow that has ended the Republic as it was founded. The door has been opened for the Federal Government to tell you how and what to do with your money and actual life. I don't believe that it will be repealed or weakened. A page of History has just been turned to a dark chapter in our story as a Nation. You can make the sound argument that the Republic was killed in 1913. Now it is truly dead beyond all question.
You and your person is now a subject of the Federal Government. Our forefathers faith, sweat, blood and tears have all been spent in vain.
You are going to be taxed just for being born and alive. Brave New World, here we come.
This is a bitter day for anyone who believes in and holds dear the idea that individuals should live free, to trade and associate with others as they see fit. I have no hope for any redemption of our once great nation.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:20 pm

Not as bad as you think. Individual states can opt out and they will, at least until the election. Romney has pledged to get rid of this abortion.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:58 pm

If it is perhaps somehow weakened or overturned "this time" it will surely stand "next time". The slope of our historical trend line may have a few upward appearing bumps in it now and then, but it is surely a downward slope overall for the long haul. What was once our Republic of (Objective) Law is no more. All hail the pinnacle achievement of Democracy and its living Constitution in action. The people have spoken. Law means nothing to them. To them Democracy has somehow morphed in and of itself into the Law. The will of the majority alone now rules unhindered by any form of objective law through the implicit power granted to its electorate and their supreme leader.

As for the potential for a short term a bump in the upward direction, it hinders upon the Republicans winning strong majorities with little to no "Rino" presence (fat chance there) in both Houses of Congress, as well as the Presidency (which itself is about to potentially elect a classic Rino, having no alternative at this juncture). Nothing less will do (and even this may not do the trick).
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Article 3 section 2 documents what the Founders accorded to the SCOTUS. Nothing in there about judicial review of the acts passed by Congress. SCOTUS granted that to themselves. That power wasn't determined until 1803 in Marbury vs Madison (interesting arguments on this link~) where the first Chief Justice, John Marshall, ruled in such a way to cement the original 1794 SCOTUS declaration of unconstitutional Congressional laws.

We elect Congress. It's set up to be changed frequently. It can be done again, soon.

In the beginning of the last century, health care was affordable. Government apparently did it again.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:25 pm

At what juncture do we methodically and logically and systematically begin to think about getting ourselves and our families off of this train (I.E., finding a new land to call home) before it wreaks?
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:56 pm

franco b wrote:Not as bad as you think. Individual states can opt out and they will, at least until the election. Romney has pledged to get rid of this abortion.


I wish I still had your optimism, but; I don't share it. The annals of History are plain. A lazy, uneducated, apathetic, society such as ours has become can not maintain a free society. We are not exempt from the slide into tyranny that has befallen all societies before us. Again, I have no hope but to live out the rest of my life in some sort of free and happy state. If that happens I will consider myself lucky indeed.
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Re: Obamacare Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:39 pm

Richard S. wrote:Seems this was upheld because it's a "tax" as it was argued before them on that premise.

It was upheld as a tax because that's the way the law is written -- not because there was some sort of trickery involved in arguing it that way before the court. Told you that many moons ago, but nobody listened ....

Gosh, I'm worried about all the doom-saying. :cry: Before you guys all cut your throats tonight, and deprive the forum of your years of coal-burning knowledge, remember that many past SCOTUS decisions have likewise been condemned by the losing side, be it right or left or ACLU or commie or KKK, but have worked out OK in the long run. Considering all the other laws in this country that are accepted without argument, there was no logical way the court could decide other than as it did. The four usual suspects (including the old black guy) voted as they always do against anything the young black guy does. They should be wearing those white KKK sheets themselves, instead of their black robes, or they should run for office if they want to make laws. Personally I am relieved and encouraged that Chief Justice Roberts saved the reputation of the court.
Last edited by rberq on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:44 pm

cokehead wrote:... you are on the way to unmanageable debt, economic collapse, poverty, and social unrest ...

On the way??? The bus is pretty close to THERE already. Where you and I would disagree is, who drove the bus most of the way?
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:46 pm

PeaBurner, in what land of OZ was HC finally becoming affordable? Could be I was napping but I thought that was a main running point on both sides for a long time now.
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:00 pm

If Obamacare is a tax, is it a direct or an indirect tax? If it is direct, per the Constitution it must be properly apportioned between the States, and if it is indirect, it must be 100% uniform (also per the Constitution). If it is neither direct nor indirect, then it is a tax that is not even defined and delineated as a tax by the Constitution. And if undefined, how (and on what legal grounds) can the Supreme Court approve it as a tax?
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Re: Obamacare "Tax" Upheld by Supreme Court

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:07 pm

lsayre wrote:If Obamacare is a tax, is it a direct or an indirect tax? If it is direct, per the Constitution it must be properly apportioned between the States, and if it is indirect, it must be 100% uniform (also per the Constitution). If it is neither direct nor indirect, then it is a tax that is not even defined and delineated as a tax by the Constitution. And if undefined, how (and on what legal grounds) can the Supreme Court approve it as a tax?

Lots of questions, but really you are just engaging in a form of denial. If you have not read all the concurring and dissenting opinions, perhaps you should. Generally the justices go to great lengths to explain their reasoning.
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