Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

Is there a "right" to health care?

Yes
8
27%
No
22
73%
 
Total votes : 30

Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:16 am

Larry, that food thing will never come about as long as the faggot hollywood sissy's are determined to feed them poor lil kids w/ the bloated tummies & drinking the same water they have been for generations in places like afryka & them, thar other places that the very wealthy are more concerned with then the good old USA :x :(---------------------------------oh wait, that's my Budweiser belly---sorry :cheers: :clap: toothy
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freetown fred
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:22 am

It seems what most fail to realize or care less about is with the law that hospitals have to treat patients we as tax payers are paying for that care or treatment in higher costs most of which is in an ER that is the most expensive place for treatment. In some areas near Pittsburgh the hospitals actually built 24/7 clinic's to take some burden off the ERs & ambulance crews that they would use as a taxi. Most of the people only require first aid or minimal treatment, even for myself in the VA system (which you all for) I see a Nurse Practitioner instead of a doctor unless some reason comes up. By the way Thank You for picking up my costs, there is another place that should have been addressed, I pay for HC coverage but they refuse to pay the VA because they know I get care for free. I feel if I'm paying their premium they should reimburse the VA.
samhill
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:28 am

Fred, let's be fair and show no insensitivities to the equal needs of all here. And if it is determined that our deficient and depraved human nature dictates that we can't always be fair, tax commissions will obviously need to be established within (and as a vast expansion of) the IRS, wherein the health police (part of the current health care law, no doubt to be found somewhere within the 1,200 plus pages that no one has read or can understand) routinely inspect and regulate both your eating habits and your access to the mandated appropriate foods and quantities thereof. If this ultimately means that the very 1% themselves will need to eat what the government dictates, then in the very interest of equality in health, welfare, and fairness, so be it!

After all, the founding intent of such fairness and equality is clear and to be found prominently right within our very Constitution. They call it the "general welfare clause".
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:40 am

lsayre, your question "Is there a 'right' to health care?" is not specific enough. Do you mean the right to have "access" to health care? Then the answer is yes. For me the right to have access to health care is very different than who pays for the health care. Certainly on a human level all should have access to health care. What gets complicated is how to pay for it and who gets the profits earned from providing that health care.

When you look at health care systems in many other countries we are the only country that provides it through the for-profit insurance companies. A significant portion of our premiums (15% or more) go to support their administration and denial of benefit policies. If the health of our citizens is compared to the health of citizens in countries with other health care delivery systems, we loose. We spend more and have poorer health.

I'll go out on a limb and predict that the Affordable Care Act will not be repealed and the states considering opting out of Medicaid expansion will largely accept it. Some states will complain loudly but, especially after the November elections, they will join. There will be intense lobbying by the hospitals and the insurance industry for it, because they profit from it.
Yanche
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:45 am

Yanche, it all comes down to what is a right and what is not a right, so I phrased it appropriately. Your perception is correct in that everyone should have the right to freely pursue access to health care for themselves and their loved ones. This is in fact a logical extension of the right to the pursuit of happiness.

Though rights must properly be defended by the use of force and law, they cannot be instituted and compelled by force or law. They may however be enumerated by law, as is seen within the Bill of Rights.
Last edited by lsayre on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:47 am

But what all does that have to do with a Right to HC? The question asks nothing about it being mandatory, as a vague question it could be does everyone that can afford their own have a right to have it. What happens when someones job is gone & HC with it, do they lose that right, or a catastrophic illness & the HC carrier says we aren't paying any more you reached your limit? Just like homeowners & auto if you file a claim can they then drop you or increase your premium? With the way HC is increasing will most of us be able to afford it in a decade or two? For the most part we are all just one major illness away from bankruptcy should something we have no control over should happen, it sounds like most here have paid HC & can care less about those that don't, the New American Way.
samhill
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:13 pm

samhill wrote: For the most part we are all just one major illness away from bankruptcy should something we have no control over should happen, it sounds like most here have paid HC & can care less about those that don't, the New American Way.


I haven't had health insurance since I got laid off a year ago. We've been paying out of pocket for doctors visits and it hasn't been too bad. Even a couple trips to the walk-in center for "emergent" care were only about $80.

Certainly beats the $1400/mo for COBRA coverage! Even if they were going to give me a 65% tax deduction!

The trick is to eat right and stay healthy and don't go to the doctor every time you have a sniffle!
jpete
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm

I've been in the same boat as you Jpete, for ten years I had no H. Ins. & I'm thankful that nothing really serious happened to the kids or myself or I would have lost everything, it can happen in a heart beat or the lack of one. :cry: Luckily with my second wife I had Ins., when she passed the bill was approaching 500k. I really believe they kept her alive that long because of the Ins. & not for any other reason but $.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:27 pm

Sam, if we have an unalienable right to health care itself (not merely the pursuit thereof), then it is in fact the mandatory responsibility of the Government to defend that right through its granted power to apply the force of law. I'm merely asking if we in fact have such a right, or more properly if such a right can even exist. Perhaps the gist of the matter comes down to the egalitarian utopia of equality. Should the force of law be used not merely to defend our unalienable rights, but to go well beyond this and actually dictate what is an unalienable right (or what is not) in an effort to bring upon us by force the utopia of equality? And furthermore, do or can rights stem from force, or do they stem only from that which is inherently required for the survival of the individual? Also, is there such a thing as a collective right, or are rights the inherent property of only individuals? In its barest form, the question becomes: Can rights exist outside of the realm of property ownership and the defense thereof? Can property be extracted or denied in any percentage to some, so that others can have "equal rights" (and if such force is applied, where is the equality)? What are rights? What is the proper function of government? Can it force us to be equal, or should it merely provide a level playing field whereby we can pursue our dreams and ambitions. And if someone perchance achieves their dream, do others have a "right" to any portion of it via government force and compulsion?
Last edited by lsayre on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:31 pm

Sam, this is the umpteenth time I've seen you, and others on this board that think like you, say that when someone goes to the hospital without insurance that somehow YOU pay for it. I don't get the logic here -- are you assuming that EVERYONE without insurance IGNORES the medical bills that inevitably come piling in???

When I went to a CA hospital after crashing my motorcycle, I got a bill for $6 grand. I couldn't pay it all at once, so it went to collection agencies. After 5 years, EVERY DIME I OWED was paid. The countless other times I've had to go to the ER for asthma attacks (because some doctors must've had a nice kickback scheme going with the inhaler manufacturer, so they prescribed an inhaler that didn't treat my problem), I paid out of pocket. I ALWAYS got a bill ... and it ALWAYS got paid. How did you pay for my health care???

I must've missed that because I don't remember any taxpayer checks ever being addressed to me .....
SMITTY
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:39 pm

As a society do we have the right to deny HC to some & what are the consequences? If this HC is a tax would not any unpaid HC that we have to provide also be considered yet another tax?
No Smitty, I never said that everyone without H Ins. fails to pay but I would bet that far more don't than do, that's why the costs of everything in a hospital from an aspirin to an operation is so expensive & guess what the Ins. Co. get a break, people like yourself & others pay the full amounts.
samhill
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:41 pm

samhill wrote: I really believe they kept her alive that long because of the Ins. & not for any other reason but $.


I agree. But then you are getting into Dr. Kevorkian territory and if we can't agree on HC to keep people alive, the country certainly isn't ready to have the debate about the "right" to die! :)
jpete
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:42 pm

I don't think so Sam--the reason being that doctors & pharm companies are a bunch of greedy bastards that have been left to run rampant forever.( and YES, we the people have allowed it
freetown fred
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:46 pm

Can your need (or any perceived collective need) apply a noose around the neck of my ability?
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Is there a "right" to health care?

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:14 pm

Does might "make" right? (or does might properly merely defend right?)

Does the USA embrace the Marxist ideal of: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!" ?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)