Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: lincolnmania On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:44 am

my efm hot air furnace that i salvaged works pretty darn well wish the efm man was on here last winter when i was putting the puzzle together........does AA make a hot air furnace or strictly boilers?
oh and lincoln is the best! don't you forget it hehe.
lincolnmania
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm af-150 1982
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986
Hand Fed Coal Stove: warm morning 1980 kenmore

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:13 am

e.alleg wrote:the EFM guy is on here to answer questions


The way he's going, everyone here will be able to field strip and rebuild an EFM blindfolded in a couple of more weeks. :D
That is some seriously intense support, my hat is off to that guy. :up: :clap: :clap:

A-A just makes boilers, they are more efficient than a stove or furnace, and thats what they are all about.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: gregolma On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:19 am

mikeandgerry wrote:For me the following factors led me to buy Axeman Anderson:

1. 84% Efficiency: Double-pass fire tube design. It is a central heating boiler plant (no stoves for me, thanks) with domestic hot water coil. The unit has a relatively low stack temperature (A sign of efficiency assuming the proper heat is being delivered to the house).

2. Time tested design-- no known major problems

3. Auger tube/coal bin feed: no bag or hod handling. Infrequent handling (shoveling) of coal using an in-cellar (or boiler room) coal bin. I just didn't want an AHS hopper. My shoulders don't like the overhead lifting. The AHS auger tube adds many $$$ to the price.

4. Fairly-detailed brochure and manual with mechanical drawings and that dandy Bureau of Mines Report with real data to peruse. The AA info badly needs updating though.

5. Low dust operation. I have found next to none in my boiler room. The fly ash does fall to the floor under the unit, a flaw described in the Bureau of Mines report. Less than a cup of granular fly ash. I can live with it.

6. Good fines control: they settle under the pick up tube and become the "hopper bottom" of your bin. Probably have to deal with them every few years or so. About a cupful of fines collect in the feed tube head but are contained there indefinitely. The peas and excess fines continue on to the fire pot.

7. Pete Axeman is not a salesman. He's an engineer and manufacturer. I appreciate the soft sell. He was outstanding to work with and quite available directly for questions.

8. Lifetime warranty (vessel and grate).

9. Some early units are still in operation.

10. Steel Boiler vessel. In fact, everything is heavy steel. Very heavy steel.

11. ASME code design. (required in my area) AHS is non-code for the same $$$. AHS will provide a stamp for extra $$$.

12. Extremely rugged. If it breaks though, it likely can be fixed without major troubles.

13. Controls are standard boiler except anthrastat.

14. Pea sized coal is in less demand than rice. Pea burns with less gas build up, i.e. combustion bumps are nil. (not so with buckwheat which can be burned in the AA with a slight modification)

15. Set and forget operation. (excluding, of course, the thusfar twice a week jump in the coal bin to shovel coal for 90 seconds and the once a week trip with the ash bins to the landfill.) I started the fire Nov 7, 2007. In about 35-45 minutes my fire pot was full and the boiler was heating my house and hot water. I haven't had to do much since. (What a let down from my 18 months of immersion in this topic designing my boiler/radiator system from scratch -- LOL--I was almost diappointed there were no problems to manage!)


I agree. The AA 130 & 160 are simple and efficient. I burn about 7 - 8 tons a year up here in Buffalo in a converted gravity system with 1030 sqaures of cast iron radiators. There's a lot of water in my system, but the hot coal fire coupled with a low flow system pump is the right set up.
gregolma
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 1980 Anthratube 130

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:47 pm

I agree. The AA 130 & 160 are simple and efficient. I burn about 7 - 8 tons a year up here in Buffalo in a converted gravity system with 1030 sqaures of cast iron radiators. There's a lot of water in my system, but the hot coal fire coupled with a low flow system pump is the right set up.


You have a big place! I calculated I would burn about 4 tons. I have only about 520 sq ft of radiation in a twenty year old house. My father and I made about three trips around the northeast picking up used radiators that I bought on Ebay. I mostly bought "modern" Burnham Slenderized with a few larger and older Aero's. We hit Phila, Lancaster, Binghamton, New Canaan, Hartford, CT and two places in NJ. It was hard work; I doubt that I would do it again. I strained my back. However, they are wonderful; Nice even heating.

I averaged about 35.00 each at auction and then invested another 90 each having them bead blasted and painted with custom color automotive paint. They look great with no out-gassing from the new paint. With fuel and fittings (not counting time-it's definitely a labor of love!) I have about 225 each in my "brand new" radiators or about half of the cost of new Burnham's! It was a big, time consuming job though. with my Anthratube and my new radiators I guess I'm set for the next 50 years or until death do us part.

My system holds about 100 gallons, 20 of which is the AAA130. Aquastat is set at 170/190/15diff. I used a primary/secondary system with 5 zones (3 br's). I bought a mixing valve for a manifold system but didn't use it believing that primary/secondary would be better and would create sufficient mixing. Now I understand that it doesn't do much mixing. My return temps can be very low at times. I keep a thinner fire because I don't have the load you do and I have a very large loop that consumes 23k btu/h. Recovery is slow at times. If the fire has been idle there is sufficient hot water to heat the zone but the return temps can drop as low as 90d. I am fortunate the boiler is steel and can handle it. This summer I will be adding the mixing valve to moderate the temp. I will trim the loops more now to reduce the flow or swap out to a low flow primary pump.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: e.alleg On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:59 pm

How do I figure my square feet of radiation from my water/air duct coil, is there a formula for size of coil/size of duct/size of ducts/water temperature/cfm ? This info would be handy if I ever convert to radiators like mikeandgerry did.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: U235a4 On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:02 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
I agree. The AA 130 & 160 are simple and efficient. I burn about 7 - 8 tons a year up here in Buffalo in a converted gravity system with 1030 sqaures of cast iron radiators. There's a lot of water in my system, but the hot coal fire coupled with a low flow system pump is the right set up.


You have a big place! I calculated I would burn about 4 tons. I have only about 520 sq ft of radiation in a twenty year old house. My father and I made about three trips around the northeast picking up used radiators that I bought on Ebay. I mostly bought "modern" Burnham Slenderized with a few larger and older Aero's. We hit Phila, Lancaster, Binghamton, New Canaan, Hartford, CT and two places in NJ. It was hard work; I doubt that I would do it again. I strained my back. However, they are wonderful; Nice even heating.

I averaged about 35.00 each at auction and then invested another 90 each having them bead blasted and painted with custom color automotive paint. They look great with no out-gassing from the new paint. With fuel and *censored* (not counting time-it's definitely a labor of love!) I have about 225 each in my "brand new" radiators or about half of the cost of new Burnham's! It was a big, time consuming job though. with my Anthratube and my new radiators I guess I'm set for the next 50 years or until death do us part.

My system holds about 100 gallons, 20 of which is the AAA130. Aquastat is set at 170/190/15diff. I used a primary/secondary system with 5 zones (3 br's). I bought a mixing valve for a manifold system but didn't use it believing that primary/secondary would be better and would create sufficient mixing. Now I understand that it doesn't do much mixing. My return temps can be very low at times. I keep a thinner fire because I don't have the load you do and I have a very large loop that consumes 23k btu/h. Recovery is slow at times. If the fire has been idle there is sufficient hot water to heat the zone but the return temps can drop as low as 90d. I am fortunate the boiler is steel and can handle it. This summer I will be adding the mixing valve to moderate the temp. I will trim the loops more now to reduce the flow or swap out to a low flow primary pump.



I'd be interested in seeing a picture of your boiler room setup aka plumbing in and out of the boiler.
U235a4
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 1958 Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 260M

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:33 pm

e.alleg wrote:How do I figure my square feet of radiation from my water/air duct coil, is there a formula for size of coil/size of duct/size of ducts/water temperature/cfm ? This info would be handy if I ever convert to radiators like mikeandgerry did.
Attached is a pdf of the formulas. You will need to make measurements of flow and temperature. Easier to make on the water side.
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Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:35 pm

What I know about boilers and piping I got mostly from these web sites and personal knowledge gained from physics, chemistry, and math teachers in high school-thank you Mrs. Hughes and Mr Mason! Engineering toolbox is a genuine wealth of reference information. Completely technical. The site is the real McCoy for engineers. Math is required!



http://www.1728.org/flowrate.htm

http://diydata.com/planning/central_heating/pipework.php

http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/




http://www.afcesa.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070613-040.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


http://www.pmmag.com/articles/90842-a-b ... ?v=preview




http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/BG-2ndpump.asp

http://www.tazeandhewitt.com/Primary%20Secondary.pdf
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mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:43 pm

Mike, that installation is a work of art!
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: stoker-man On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:46 pm

It sure is!
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Boing! :jawdrop:

That's beautiful. Old tech meets 21st century. That ain't your father's coal burner........
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:04 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:My system holds about 100 gallons, 20 of which is the AAA130. Aquastat is set at 170/190/15diff. I used a primary/secondary system with 5 zones (3 br's). I bought a mixing valve for a manifold system but didn't use it believing that primary/secondary would be better and would create sufficient mixing. Now I understand that it doesn't do much mixing. My return temps can be very low at times. I keep a thinner fire because I don't have the load you do and I have a very large loop that consumes 23k btu/h. Recovery is slow at times. If the fire has been idle there is sufficient hot water to heat the zone but the return temps can drop as low as 90d. I am fortunate the boiler is steel and can handle it. This summer I will be adding the mixing valve to moderate the temp. I will trim the loops more now to reduce the flow or swap out to a low flow primary pump.


mikeandgerry, what was in the house before the hot water system was installed? Why cast iron vs. baseboard? I like iron over baseboard - it's quieter and I think it's more comfortable due to more radiant heat vs. the mostly convection from baseboard.

There are some very nice slim panel type radiators out of Europe that I'm going to look into when we build, not buy, our next home. I can't deal with the standard hot air "furnasty" systems that are everywhere today.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:07 pm

My house was heated by electric thermal storage (ETS), the "box-of-rocks" style. Each unit was a large radiator of ceramic blocks heated up at night on the cheap juice (6c per kwh) There were six units essentially in the corners of the house on two floors plus two small electric baseboards. The system worked well for 21 years but it was German made and obsolete. There were no parts available at all and I was beginning to burn out elements and fan motors. The system's flaws were that it overheated the house by 7am. 85d is fine for my wife but not me. The dog was sweltering all day but it was a cozy 75 when everyone came home from work/school. By midnight the temp was about 70 and the reheating began. No sweaters required but virtually no control except the double-hung windowstat. Bad days were the extremely cold night and warm day or warm night followed by extreme temp drop.

While removing the first unit by disassembly (they weighed 250 up to 800 pounds each) I realized that I would have to remove them whole because they were packed with ceramic fiber insulation (worse than asbestos, but not regulated). I am happy to have them gone.

Anyway, back to coal..........I wanted to put in a boiler because hot air was out of the question with a family of asthma sufferers (probably from the ceramic fiber in the ets units!) but hated the idea of paying more for heating my house than (yes, the price of electric at 6c per kwh was less than fuel oil at the time I was making my decision). Natural gas is not available, wood it too much work and would upset my neighbors in my suburban development. Propane is unreasonably priced around here and geo is untested over time in cold climates. Coal was the answer. Axeman Anderson and AHS seemed the best options for central heating with least work.

Radiator seemed the answer for transfer. Radiant floor after the fact is not a good choice. Fin tubes are flimsy and with big electric radiators to begin with, we had used up wall spaces that you wouldn't have done if baseboards were original. New radiators were 300-500 a piece! I knew auto paint would hold up to the heat and blasting would clean them up. They were cheap and I was bored so I forged ahead in near total blindness getting the data on radiators and they are just what I needed for my home. I will post some photos later.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: Bob On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:17 pm

mikeandgerry wrote: I keep a thinner fire because I don't have the load you do


What do you mean by a "thinner fire"? How do you control the thinness of the fire in the AA boiler?
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Why is Axeman Andersen considered the Best?

PostBy: e.alleg On: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:33 pm

Yanche; thanks for the formula.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Visit Lehigh Anthracite