AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: GRIFFINW On: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:12 pm

Hello Axemen,
Every summer I work on some upgrades to my to my beloved 130 and system.
Some of which is redoing work that I should have perhaps thought through
a bit more at the time. Using some old pictures while building up my Axeman,
I put the circulator on the return side, like in the picture. Of course everything on a
new installation is on the supply side. I’m using a Grundfos UP26-64 3 speed and
about a 100 foot primary loop. Is it worth changing it around for some added efficiency?
As always I appreciate your valued advise.
Thanks,
Frank
GRIFFINW
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 1951 AA130

Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:00 pm

Watch out for all the low flying missiles.........from fellow members! IMO you don't have to change it. I've worked on systems 60 years old with circs (banks of the old B&G monsters on the returns) and they work just as good as a new pump away system. Finer diffused bubbles from 'away pumps', but we are splitting hairs here.
Do what you want, but I can assure you that your system will not be THAT MUCH different with a pumping away vs pulling a return flow. If you absolutely WANT to change, by all means, do so. If you think you will save a bunch of money.........perhaps not.

Remember when we HAD TO HAVE front wheel drive? The bean counter idiots saved a few bucks on each vehicle...whoopdee damned doo!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:44 am

GRIFFINW wrote:Hello Axemen,
Every summer I work on some upgrades to my to my beloved 130 and system.
Some of which is redoing work that I should have perhaps thought through
a bit more at the time. Using some old pictures while building up my Axeman,
I put the circulator on the return side, like in the picture. Of course everything on a
new installation is on the supply side. I’m using a Grundfos UP26-64 3 speed and
about a 100 foot primary loop. Is it worth changing it around for some added efficiency?
As always I appreciate your valued advise.
Thanks,
Frank


Return side pumping and supply side pumping have nothing to do with efficiency and everything to do with system design.

Supply side pumping has had a lot written about it but is easily and frequently mis-applied. The location of the air separator, system loads, pump and boiler are all important to consider to achieve proper air separation, not higher efficiency. Remember, we are running coal boilers, not some high tech funky condensing boiler.
If it works fine, don't mess with it. Return side pumping can work fine.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

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Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:50 am

<taking a deep breath to refute all previous opinions> <accck, cough, cough, hack, spit> *gasp*

OK... even taking a deep breath I can't bring myself to speak against what Whistlenut & Steamup said. It was going to be fun too! But... I'm with them. If you were designing a whole new system, then perhaps do a "modern design", but to change things just for the sake of change? Naaaa. If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: GRIFFINW On: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:55 am

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the advise, and it is even what I hoping to hear!!!!!!!!
I really didn't want to break into an already nice plumping job,
but I was willing to if it made a difference.
Thanks,
Frank
GRIFFINW
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 1951 AA130

Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:59 pm

While the supply "pumping away" style circulator location has several advantages, in a working return side system I wouldn't change it. Overall systems design does matter more and you need components to bleed air and oxygen trapped in the water. On coal fired boilers, there is a often overlooked issue. IF, you have an overfire condition and the safety relief valve releases you will loose boiler water. IF, there are flow check valves in your system and the circulator pumps are atop your boiler, when things cool the automatic fill valve may fail to fill the impeller side of the circulator. This will prevent a unattended recovery from an overfire condition. If the circulator is low on the boiler return side the water the safety valve release is unlikely to remove the boiler water from the impeller chamber.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: AXMAN 130 CIRCULATOR LOCATION

PostBy: Don On: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:21 pm

http://www.fiainc.com/documents/4-09Pum ... llmean.pdf

Here is a good artical about why you pump away.
Don
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker k-2
Stove/Furnace Model: utica starfire

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