Obama Tax Cuts Rejected In House

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:35 pm

WASHINGTON -- The House of Representatives made its election-year arguments Wednesday in the tax-cut battle roiling Capitol Hill, rejecting a plan to preserve middle-class breaks while backing a measure that safeguards wealthier taxpayers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/obama-tax-cuts-house_n_1730734.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:15 pm

To xaos: The House of Representatives obviously does not feel that taxing the wealthy (in the sense of the Robin Hood epic theme, I.E, "Rob from the rich and give to the poor.") is a good idea. Why do you personally feel that this IS a good idea? What has become of the noble JFK concept of a rising tide lifting all boats (which in a nutshell was also the essence of Ronald Reagan)? Has it become the new mantra of the left that to lift some boats others must be made to sink? Where is the justice and equality in that?

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:41 am

Explain to me why my dollar is taxed @ approx 26% & the job creators dollar is taxed @ 14%..
Of you did notice that I also posted a link to the Republican HR8 bill.

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:46 am

xaos wrote:Explain to me why my dollar is taxed @ approx 26% & the job creators dollar is taxed @ 14%..

Answer my questions and I'll answer yours.

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:51 am

Never stated that I believe in a "Robin Hood" style taxing system.
But as I see a regressive taxing system has not & will not help.
A more progressive tax code is the obvious solution.
It's pretty easy when you think about it.
The tax code was made extremely regressive by the Bush tax cuts. Undoing them,
and perhaps making the tax code even more progressive would do an enormous amount to undo that income inequality.
The rich have done extremely well this past decade on the backs of everyone else.
It's about time they started paying their fair share.
We need a more progressive or at least a even style..

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:01 am

The concept of a progressive tax comes straight out of the Communist Manifesto by Carl Marx. It was one of his means whereby to crush capitalism and thereby achieve the Communist utopia.

You are not actually taxed at 26% if you are getting most to all of it back at the end of the year. In fact, if you get it all back, you are being taxed at zero percent.

The Federal Income Tax directly taxes (you guessed it) "income". Much to in fact most of what the wealthy earn in a year is not derived from income. Also, they often give heavily to charity and use many other fully legal means whereby to reduce the tax burden upon their income. I would personally argue that wages do not meet the legal definition of income, but that topic is not for this forum.

The Russians have wised up and imposed a low 10% flat tax upon everyone.

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:10 am

I'm so sick & tired of hearing about the job creators & how if their tax gets increased they will quit hiring, duh if you all haven't noticed yet (after over a decade) those tax cuts seemed to have only created more jobs overseas. Now if the wealthy are on average paying less of a % on tax than the middle class just how is bringing them up to a more equal % robbing them? It just means that those candy a**ed so called job creators are even spoiled so badly that they cry about fairness. That $250 k figure is only after it is reached & above & still after all the so called expenses of moving their money around to different off shore locations (I guess) because they sure didn't hire anyone here lately. Most small job creators that I know of aren't clearing that & as I said if they are it's only after that when the tax would increase. Now people on SS alone are supposed to pay more under GOP plan, gee that sounds fair, reduce or take away school lunches & reduce food stamps to preserve tax cuts for creators. Get rid of the mortgage int. deduction & others to preserve creator loopholes that sounds fair as well. I'd go on but I have to run to Pittsburgh to look at a job & make arrangements to make money for a hall & at least hire a few people part time, I hate doing it but I can't postpone my micro-business any longer waiting to pay even less tax.

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:17 am

You are not actually taxed at 26% if you are getting most to all of it back at the end of the year. In fact, if you get it all back, you are being taxed at zero percent.

I unfortunately do not get it all back.
In fact I owed a little, this is with an additional tax be removed with the W4.

Now the flat tax is a interesting option, here it comes... BUT,
all other taxes would increase. So as long as all income and investments income are taxed as income on a flat scale then all would be equal??

Here is another chart:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/naomirobbins/2012/07/16/comments-on-ezra-kleins-romneys-and-obamas-tax-plans-in-one-chart/

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:21 am

The top 10% paid 71% of all of the income tax revenues actually collected in 2011. The bottom 48% paid zero.

I would urge that you read the book "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand from cover to cover (warning, it is a bit over 1,000 pages, and the first 300 or so pages will most likely bore you to death until a rush of enlightenment suddenly jolts you, and from that point on you will not be able to put it down until you have completed it). It may very well change how you see things.

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:56 am

Now, if the upper 10% are paying 71% of the taxes,and the lower 48% pay 0% what must the collective rate for the middle 42% be?
We are getting screwed.

The numbers are designed to confuse and misdirect the mathematically challenged and disadvantaged, who oddly enough fall into the lower 48% group.

So, unless these tax arguments provide actual tax rates they are pretty meaningless. The rich, collectively may have payed what amounts to a 15% tax rate on their TOTAL income. If they did not shelter so much money they would have paid an even larger amount.

The fact is poor & middle class people have fewer means available to hide income and assets, and will pay their taxes. The rich lie and hide their income. If the rich actually upheld their end of the social bargain they would be paying their taxes instead of taking advantage of tax loopholes and in the long run take advantage of us.

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:26 am

xaos wrote:A more progressive tax code is the obvious solution.
It's pretty easy when you think about it.
.

It's easy because you didn't think of it.

It's actually the second plank of the Communist Manifesto.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:35 am

xaos wrote:Now the flat tax is a interesting option, here it comes... BUT,
all other taxes would increase.

Why?

Why are you looking for more and better ways to give the government money?

When have they ever show themselves to be good stewards of your money?

Is it not possible to shrink government? Must they ALWAYS expand? If that's the case, then giving them more tax money only prolongs the inevitable day when they crush you under their weight.

I'll never understand people that cheer lead for their own destruction.

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:38 am

xaos wrote:The fact is poor & middle class people have fewer means available to hide income and assets, and will pay their taxes. The rich lie and hide their income.

Judge Learned Hand (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals wrote:Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands.

xaos wrote: If the rich actually upheld their end of the social bargain they would be paying their taxes instead of taking advantage of tax loopholes and in the long run take advantage of us.

What "social bargain"? Why do you have a claim on anyone's life? Who the hell are you?

SMITTY · By: **SMITTY** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:47 am

xaos wrote:........ The rich have done extremely well this past decade on the backs of everyone else. .........

This statement says all I need to know about you xaos.

If you believe that nobody can be rich without taking it from somebody else, then your warped mind will not accept how the economy REALLY works. No use in my typing any more replies to you.

And to the rest of the guys on the forum, I'd ignore this guy's bait posts so they fall off the page as quickly as possible, as they should.

xaos · By: **xaos** On: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:39 am

And to the rest of the guys on the forum, I'd ignore this guy's bait posts so they fall off the page as quickly as possible, as they should.

I guess in your eyes the universe and all it's problems began on January 21st, 2009.
Insults instead of discussion has been a ploy tactic for closed minded republicans for some time.

N/T

Obama Tax Cuts Rejected In House

Obama Tax Cuts Rejected In House

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