Violation of Civil Liberties or Rights?

IOF,

Not to be a hard ass, but Richard has a valid point of view.

I know that area, go a little farther south and you'll find Green Pond. Spectacular beautiful lake. It has tall cliffs on the opposite side. It's the only area in the world that has the rock called Green Pond conglomerate. We call it puddingstone. A lot of little old lake houses, and some amazing trophy houses. It's a snooty, expensive, exclusive community; but that's the way they want it. We went to a memorial service at the community center there after 9/11.
You can't put a boat on that lake unless the hull has been power washed; there's a reason, they don't want invasive life forms to wreck the lake.

Just think of this, The Universe gives you what you think about. Maybe a little too heady, but, just hang in there, take it as it comes. Watch the "victim mentality"; try to make a gratitude list with ten items on it.
Don't get me wrong, I can talk the talk, it's walking the walk that can seem so difficult!
I've got some good philosophical book titles for you if you want to PM me.

Richard S. wrote:Firstly I would never go anywhere near one these places. I'd end up shooting someone. Having said that......

I'm On Fire wrote:They can't legally restrict your movement around the lake though, right?

This is common area maintained by the association? Here's the problem as I see it, if I were to buy property on one these places and I'm paying dues to maintain the roads, common area and whatever else needs funding I'd be pretty pissed if someone was living there and not paying their dues. To me it would go beyond the lake, if I'm paying to fund road maintenance and you're driving your car down that road....

SMITTY wrote:Places like that are a violation of The Constitution ..... and they're all over the USA........

It's more likely not allowing them would be unconstitutional. You have private citizens that have entered into a private agreement.

That's the kicker. People pay their dues because they are sheeple. The money does not go back into the maintenance of the roads, lake, clubhouse, ball field, tennis courts, beach. The line their greedy little pockets with it. It'd be different if the damn lake dues weren't so outrageous and if they put the money back into the community.

Irene hit last year, the road washed out. Took the idiots two weeks to fix it. Do you know how they fixed it? Dumped sand then chipped and tarred it. One really bad storm like Irene and it's gone again. They don't pave the roads. The damn school buses won't even drive into the lake to pick the kids up because the roads are so damn bad. They make the kids walk down to the main road. The only way in or out of the lake was by a back entrance that happened to be a dirt road that also washed out. YOU NEEDED 4WD to get out. And if you didn't have 4wd you were a prisoner in their all important little community. Then, when the main road was reopened instead of repairing and leaving the back entrance open so that you could get in or out, they just closed it. Didn't fix it.

I've often questioned my wife's decision to buy a house in this lake. I would've never bought one here. Stupid decrepit summer cottages. Like I said, my wife and I are not the only ones in the lake who don't pay our dues. Maybe it's just my wife or more specifically me are just more vocal about when the lake pulls a dick move and has one of their brainless sheep make an idiotic comment about *censored*. They don't want us to drive on the roads? Fine. They can buy my *censored* house from me so I can move.

Next thing I guess they'll be allowed to do is erect a wall around anyone's property who doesn't pay their dues and put armed guards around the perimeter of said walls. Seig Heil! Maybe the lake should declare themselves their own Communist little country. Seeing as how they do whatever they like anyway.

Maybe I should scrape the money together and pay the dues. Then I can go to the meetings and tell them that they are all a bunch of pretentious *censored*.

Dann757 wrote:IOF,

Not to be a hard ass, but Richard has a valid point of view.

I know that area, go a little farther south and you'll find Green Pond. Spectacular beautiful lake. It has tall cliffs on the opposite side. It's the only area in the world that has the rock called Green Pond conglomerate. We call it puddingstone. A lot of little old lake houses, and some amazing trophy houses. It's a snooty, expensive, exclusive community; but that's the way they want it. We went to a memorial service at the community center there after 9/11.
You can't put a boat on that lake unless the hull has been power washed; there's a reason, they don't want invasive life forms to wreck the lake.

Just think of this, The Universe gives you what you think about. Maybe a little too heady, but, just hang in there, take it as it comes. Watch the "victim mentality"; try to make a gratitude list with ten items on it.
Don't get me wrong, I can talk the talk, it's walking the walk that can seem so difficult!
I've got some good philosophical book titles for you if you want to PM me.

I take everything as it comes. But when I see something that isn't morally right, I'm going to call it out. I'm still waiting for one of the lake Zone Manager's to leave a note on my door, 'Ooh, sorry we missed you...even though you were home...but the lake doesn't want you to walk around if you aren't paying your dues.'

Yeah, they've left notes like that before when I was home, with the door open. Because they are cowards who don't want to explain their idiotic rules to someone who isn't going to just bend over like all the other sheeple.


To be clear here. My family and I do not, DO NOT use any of their facilities. We don't go to the lake, the tennis courts, the ball field, the clubhouse, the beach, either playgrounds (forgot that was there), the basketball court (if you want to call it that). But since when can someone come up and say now the roads, the access to your house is off limits. How the hell am I supposed to get to and from my house that I own and pay the bank note on. Do you mean to tell me that they can now tell me I can't have access to my house, yard? Where does it stop? Like I said, there is one way in, one way out. Telling me I can't walk on the road is absolutely ludicrous. I guess I should just invest in a helicopter too.

Well, apparently my wife found a letter from the lake stating that the roads are only allowed to be used for, "Ingress/Egress" and anything above and beyond that is considered "Theft" and "Trespassing".

Either way, it's a dick thing. I've emailed the lake's president about some things.

I still feel it's wrong but whatever.

Apparently, they made you well aware of the rules, etc through USPS/ Booklets, etc. It's a tough way to learn the reality of life, but conditions/rules/contracts need to be read thoroughly. I know it's a real old addage BUT "ingorance of the law/laws don't cut it" or something similar to that. I'd say you knew what you were getting into when you purchased the house in that community. But possibly didn't think it applied to you????? If you didn't??? shame on ya. I don't think the Constitution has much weight in the matters of a private community setting.

Fred, they just sent this letter.

I'm still standing by that it's a complete bullshit and dick thing to do to somebody and I've been in contact with our Zone Rep. today and when I talk to him face to face I'll be letting him know that. Like I said, I'm not the only one that they've been harassing. I am however, the most vocal about how I feel

It is however blatantly obvious that my wife and I are completely stupid. Which is why we don't keep many friends, nor do we go out of our way to talk to anyone or make friends. I can only hope that both of our children are better at this life thing than both of us are. Because apparently, we're both failures on absolutely everything we do.

Sounds like you'll be off to a great start with your Zone Rep.

We do the best we can with what we've got. I just don't feel that it's right they can tell someone where to walk when they themselves can barely take care of their own grounds. I've already let him know that in the past when we've tried to reach out to them that they've been less than helpful. I've already told him that we want to do whats right but only if they are willing to work with us.

Like I said earlier Fred, when my wife bought the house the lake association didn't give her anything. She's kept all of the paperwork for the house and there is nothing from the lake. No, what they do is change something, they tell all their committee friends then they get pamphlets together and stick them on your door with little notes, "Sorry we missed you." Like I said, I've been home only to find one of them have been on my property without knocking. It's cowardice. You can't knock on my door when you see my car is there to talk to me and explain why you've made a change to the imaginary rules that you don't give to anyone?

I understand, they want everyone to pay their dues. Fine. Make it so everyone can pay their dues. The dues go up and up and up and then people drop out because they can't pay them. My wife and I are one of those people. We paid for a long time. Then all of a sudden they were more than we could afford. So we stopped. We've tried several times before to pay and we've been met with resistance because they are unwilling to work with you. Well, I've contacted the zone rep. and laid it out on the table. I'm willing to pay, but they've got to work with me. It's not like I'm rolling in money here. Hell, from a lot of my posts here you can all see that.

I do wish one thing. I wish I had done better in school. Then maybe I'd of been smarter and better off.

I think you are plenty smart enough and in addition I think your moral compass points true.

If the roads are private then all who use them should pay for maintenance. Additional amenities such as the lake and clubhouse etc. should be a separate charge for those who want them.

I think that would be fair but may not be how the rules are written. From what you have written it seems that the association is too ambitious in trying to maintain facilities beyond the ability of many members to pay for. Funds being diverted are another story.

Probably a nice little sandy beach at the lake that all could afford and forget the rest would be more realistic.

You have to let your voice be heard at association meetings to get more realistic rules. Right now you are probably viewed as a deadbeat unwilling to pay his fair share, when that is far from the truth which is you just don't have the money.

Maybe you should give up those European vacations and buy Fords instead of those Mercedes you are used to.

LOL Franco B. I took one vacation since 2008 and that one was this year and look how much fun I had on that one vacation. I wish we had a Mercedes or something....instead we've got two busted ass old cars that break down, a lot.

Yes, we used to pay our dues. But then when my wife had her hours cut to the point of working 10 hours a weeks among other things paying the lake dues just wasn't a hug priority. Since 2008 we've had a pretty rough go of everything. I think 2011 was the worst year. But we have tried to pay our lake dues. We've had the "Let's meet, sit down and hash out the dues" meetings before. They've never worked out because the committee or the past zone reps have never wanted to work with us. Hell, they haven't wanted to work with anyone in the lake. Our (one of our few friends) whom also live in the lake said their new "no walking around" rule is ridiculous; and they pay their dues. But they've said that our new zone (or district I think the lake is broken up into 11 separate districts) rep. is more down to earth and willing to work with people than the past reps. I however, still can't help but feel that things are going to be more of the same based off of the past meetings we've had with these people. I guess I'll find out on Saturday when I meet this new guy. It'll be the first time I'll be meeting the zone/district rep. since my wife has always done it in the past.

Obviously the well being of your family has to come first. It's doubly hard for you since you want to do the right thing as far as you are able.

If I were a dues paying member of your community I would find it just about impossible to actually go up to you and say you can't walk on the road, especially if I knew you were hard up for money. It kind of illustrates the unreasonable mind set you are up against.

The dues are just too damn high for some members to pay. The necessities like road maintenance have to be separate from the luxuries so all could at least pay for the basics. This won't go over too well with those using the luxuries since they will then cost more with fewer paying for them, but unlike the federal government the community has to live within its means. Those wanting the amenities should pay for them, those not able to should not be coerced into paying for what they can not afford. Another example of the collective trying to impose its will on the individual. It never works.

I'm On Fire wrote:It is however blatantly obvious that my wife and I are completely stupid. Which is why we don't keep many friends, nor do we go out of our way to talk to anyone or make friends. I can only hope that both of our children are better at this life thing than both of us are. Because apparently, we're both failures on absolutely everything we do.

KNOCK IT OFF.

I know you're upset, but don't you dare put yourself down. You're a good writer, you're not stupid. Count your blessings, you have a house, a nice wife and kids; a job. We're all willing to help you here, but not if you're gonna shove the oatmeal off the high chair.

This book is available on CD: The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.

Take a deep breath man, everybody has problems.

They say if everybody put their problems on a table for exchange, everybody would take their own damn problems back.

Get a perspective IOF, my best friend's sister is in Memorial Sloan-Kettering with one of the major diseases . She has five kids, their whole family is keeping a positive attitude.

Dann757 wrote:

xaos wrote:I have fought back and became an active voting charter member and now I have a voice with in the BOD.

I'm sure you're as well liked there as you are here.

Hopefully someday you will learn how to deal with your cognitive dissonance.

xaos wrote:Hopefully someday you will learn how to deal with your cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.


There is no such ideation when I consider your sparkling internet personality. Did you concieve of such a brilliant retort before or after you delegated mop and bucket work to your subordinates?

Just be careful.

Not paying your dues could have more undesirable effects than not being able to use the playgrounds. Depending on how the association is set up, they could put a lean on your house and property. They could take everything and still leave you with a mortgage.

I have read stories about associations taking expensive houses for a couple hundred dollars in back dues then selling them for a big profit with the owner picking up the tab.

You may want to speak with a lawyer. It sucks, but as Walter Cronkite used to say "And that's the way it is