Home heating Oil and off road #2

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: qbwebb On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:05 pm

Can someone recommend a biocide? My 1/2 full tank is from Spring of 10, and the last time I used any significant qty was during the October storm power outage just to get the extra Btu's into the house while the generator was running.
qbwebb
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: VF3000

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: Berlin On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:38 pm

Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: cokehead On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:04 pm

I'm On Fire wrote:
cokehead wrote:
Rob R. wrote:I have burned about 75 gallons since my EFM came online...mostly when I shut the EFM down for service or periodically fire the oil boiler to make sure it still runs well. I have about 1/2 tank according to the gauge, and I hope that lasts 3-4 years.


If you oil is going to set for years you might want to consider BLENDING a biocide into it. Algae can grow in stagnant heating oil as well as diesel.



I thought about treating mine. But, well the tank is in the basement and my furnace is nearly 50 years old. It's a tank.


A tank that old is at risk of rusting through from the inside. The condensation collects in the bottom of the tanks over the years and rusts them out. Inspect the bottom of the tank regularly looking for signs of oil weeping or dripping from the bottom of the tank. A tank that oil likely has a coating of rust mixed with sludge and water which for the most part will stay in place even if you run out of oil. If the tank is changed out by a "professional" make sure they don't transfer that sludge into the new tank. Having it done professionally will cost you probably at least 3 times what the materials cost. I did mine myself. I waited til I ran out of oil, used a sawsall to cut a BIG hole in the side of the tank, then scraped out all the sludge, Finished cleaning it out with speedy dry and rags. Then cut the tank in half before I scrapped it. Most scrap yards won't take tanks unless they are cleaned out and cutting them open is the only practical way to do it. When the new tank went in it is pitched to water can't stay in the tank. You have to deal with any condensation as you go in the filter housing. Vent pipe on new installations should be the same size as the fill pipe. 2" is standard. A vent alarm and gauge should be installed. Do not use Teflon tape. Use something like Rectorseal (rated for oil!) only on threads. Flared fittings only on oil lines, no compression fittings. They make a plastic coated copper oil line that is pretty good, better than bare copper on the long haul. And of course you need the special shut off valve in the bottom of the tank that has a knob that melts at low temperatures and closes itself in the event of a fire. New tanks are shipped with plastic or metal TEMPORARY plugs. They ALL need to be replaced with threaded plugs with pipe dope especially on the BOTTOM. I have seen situations where people called to have their new tanks filled and the shipping plugs where still in place in the bottom of the tank. In that situation the oil lines came out of the top of the tank. (It was in a special fitting that allow the copper line to go to within an inch or so of the bottom of the tank.) That would of been a disaster if the driver had not insisted on inspecting the new instillation.

Did I miss anything? The tank has to be ? number of feet from the oil burner....no more than two tanks per oil burning appliance per basement without special containment....vent has to be so many feet from a window or door......

50 year old tank.....it is on borrowed time. When you can afford it really should be changed out. The good thing is they almost never burst unless a vent is plugged when the tank is being filled and the driver is totally oblivious. Tank failure is a slow motion process, weeping progressing to dripping........
Last edited by cokehead on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502


Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: cokehead On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:12 pm

qbwebb wrote:Can someone recommend a biocide? My 1/2 full tank is from Spring of 10, and the last time I used any significant qty was during the October storm power outage just to get the extra Btu's into the house while the generator was running.


I'm not sure how effective it will be unless it is blended in. Usually the biocide is added in the proper portion just before the delivery. You might consider adding it to some diesel in a five gallon container, shake it up good and poor it in. I think that would help but not sure if it would disperse enough with just five gallons. Most brands are highly concentrated so just dribbling it in the tank is far from ideal.
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: theo On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:34 pm

Good post cokehead
theo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:03 pm

cokehead wrote:Did I miss anything? The tank has to be ? number of feet from the oil burner....no more than two tanks per oil burning appliance per basement without special containment....vent has to be so many feet from a window or door......

I know the fill pipe to the tank needs to be schedule 40 steel pipe. Can schedule 40 PVC be used for the vent piping?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:46 pm

Absolutely not!

All codes say rigid ferrous metal pipe.

You can be assured the oil company checks before they fill it, and obviously the code enforcement officer has already been there. Lately the insurance companies have been checking chimneys and fuel storage...oil, propane and NG. ALSO alternative heating sources...for clearances and exhaust piping......
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: cokehead On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:53 pm

Yanche wrote:
cokehead wrote:Did I miss anything? The tank has to be ? number of feet from the oil burner....no more than two tanks per oil burning appliance per basement without special containment....vent has to be so many feet from a window or door......

I know the fill pipe to the tank needs to be schedule 40 steel pipe. Can schedule 40 PVC be used for the vent piping?



NO! What would happen in a fire? I know the PVC is easier to work and would function OK under normal conditions but you have to think about unexpected things. What would happen if you have a half full oil tank in you basement and you basement floods 5 feet deep? That would be an unlikely scenario for most people unless you live where there could be a storm surge from a hurricane or next to a river that might flood once every 100 years. If the tank isn't secured it could break the pipes and tip over. Might sound like I'm getting a little carried away but I have seen the flooding scenario a couple years ago and near where I live there was a 13 foot storm surge in 1938.
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:57 pm

just what IOF wanted to hear...
Tank on borrowed time...
I have seen those perfect on the outside tanks...
The sludge and rust is plugging any pinholes...
Get a new DW tank...
A hazmat site sucks...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: Berlin On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:52 am

Yanche wrote:
cokehead wrote:Did I miss anything? The tank has to be ? number of feet from the oil burner....no more than two tanks per oil burning appliance per basement without special containment....vent has to be so many feet from a window or door......

I know the fill pipe to the tank needs to be schedule 40 steel pipe. Can schedule 40 PVC be used for the vent piping?


nope. but I still like to use copper.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:58 am

cokehead wrote:Did I miss anything?


Not much! Good post.

Perhaps these are local things.... Around here the tank must be five feet or more from the boiler/furnace. The copper line from tank to boiler MUST be covered. Either the orange plastic or the slip on blue stuff. No bare copper can touch concrete. Tank legs can not be over 10" tall (maybe 12" on horizontal?) and must have flanges, but tank bottom must be at least 6" off the floor. Outside tanks must be on a concrete pad that is on a gravel base. Outside valve & filter must be protected by a metal "tent" to prevent ice falling damage.

I keep a "magna-patch" in stock. They can stop a drip in an emergency. If you see a weeping tank... DO NOT scrape at the weep!!

And yes, the price of heating oil is beyond crazy. And the feds have pretty much stopped helping the poor people. It's going to be a tough winter.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:19 am

About 8 years ago I repaired a leak at the tank outlet before the filter. Obviously I had to run the tank dry to do this ... and inside the bottom was about 1" of sludge. The outlet for the tank is about an inch off the bottom, which I found strange. There's nowhere for anything trapped in the bottom of the tank to get out. My barn tank has the outlet at the very bottom - seems like a more logical place to me. That way the filter catches all the crap, instead of it building up inside.

With the moisture in my basement I'm surprised the tank is still holding up. No leaks that I can see. One of these days I might relocate the barn tank to the basement. Might have to. That should be fun ...

I pumped everything I could out of the barn tank yesterday. Still only gave me 1/8th tank! I must've been minutes away from running dry.
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SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:28 am

CapeCoaler wrote:just what IOF wanted to hear...
Tank on borrowed time...
I have seen those perfect on the outside tanks...
The sludge and rust is plugging any pinholes...
Get a new DW tank...
A hazmat site sucks...


Just one more nail in the coffin that is my miserable life. One day, when I have a bunch of extra money lying around I can get to all of these "NEED TO BE REPLACED NAO!!" projects that cost my soul in blood. I already had one of those in 2011, we all see how well that turned out and a year later, still hurting financially because of it. A one week project that turned into three months and now my yard is more of a retention pond when I run the sprinkler for my kids.

I've been saying since 2006 that the furnace needs to be replaced, I also know the tank "should" be replaced. But unless someone wants to lend me...no give me, because I'll never be able to pay it back because I work my ass off to pay bills; the money to do it it's not getting done. And probably never will.

Sorry to vent, just had a rough week that well...revolves around money I don't have and will most likely never have. I feel like I live in Soviet Russia, hell, the route this country is on we'll soon have more police states and and we'll be lucky enough to stand in a bread line for loaf of bread that costs $800.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:51 am

Above ground oil tanks have a design life of 50 years. Most do fine for that period of time. But the water that settles to the bottom of the tank from humidity entering the tank via the vent will corrode it through eventually. There is a program funded by the home heating industry called "TankSure". It's an effort to prevent tanks from leaking which is always bad news. If your oil dealer participates in this program, they will use an ultrasound device to measure the thickness of the metal on the bottom of the tank in about 12-15 places. If all readings are within spec they will issue an insurance policy on the tank(I think it is free). Then every year when they do their annual service they retake those readings and if any fall below spec, they give you $1,000.00 toward replacing the tank. Here is a link to the program.

http://www.bostonenv.com/welcome/homeowners/index.asp
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Home heating Oil and off road #2

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:52 am

Yanche wrote:
cokehead wrote:Did I miss anything? The tank has to be ? number of feet from the oil burner....no more than two tanks per oil burning appliance per basement without special containment....vent has to be so many feet from a window or door......

I know the fill pipe to the tank needs to be schedule 40 steel pipe. Can schedule 40 PVC be used for the vent piping?

OK not PVC. Another installation question. For adjacent 275 gal tanks can the vent pipe be manifolded together near the tank and a single schedule 40 steel vent pipe exit the building?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea