Obama's War on the Young

Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:31 am

This is not really Obama's fault but just illustrates how harmful government interference can be. Another example of government help destroying those it means to help and guess who will pay the bill when this explodes.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... the-young/
franco b
 
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:45 am

I think there are some misleading statements in that article at least according to this, note the accepted deferments if done in a timely manner, a few years ago I had read where the largest group of non-payers were medical professionals that felt they were doing a service(even if compensated which they didn't mention) & therefore shouldn't have to pay educational loans back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_lo ... ted_States
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:24 am

samhill wrote:I think there are some misleading statements in that article

I don't doubt that there are. The point is though that government embarks on so many well intentioned programs without realizing all the consequences. Those that oppose are evil or heartless. There just seems to be that mindless faith in the inherent goodness of the program will overcome all.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:55 am

Actually until I believe both Bush & Obama did some revamping the banks were the middle men & they received fees & int., it's a double edged sword do you continue to fund a program where the banks profit & make the Gov. look like the bad guy or do you actually become the lender & have control over the collections? My wife still takes classes at Thiel & the # of foreign students that can afford the costs are getting higher every year so the Colleges themselves are driving up their tuition simply because they can get it. Some here claim that the majority of homeowners that lost their homes should have never got a loan & perhaps the banks were doing the same with college loans. In any event it seems that for most we have reached the point where that degree is no longer worth the investment.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:51 pm

samhill wrote: In any event it seems that for most we have reached the point where that degree is no longer worth the investment.

That's the point. By making all that money available, demand goes up and colleges take advantage and students are stuck with a higher bill than would otherwise be.

Of course a lot of what is taught is useless anyway.
franco b
 
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:45 pm

I think most of the blame should go towards businesses that begin to want a college degree for jobs that formally needed none. I know where I worked a regular foreman used to work his way up from the working man & would have a good knowledge of the jobs & work involved, next thing ya knew there were a bunch of book smart college kids that actually were working for less & had no idea of what was going on. Worse part is they almost thought that their degree made them the smartest person on the planet but they never took that common sense 101 class & that's the one that could have helped the most. If your solution is to only have college for those that can afford it we will even more so become a training & exporting port for those countries that we now have to compete against while taking away the incentive for our own youth to work & study hard to get ahead simply because they weren't born rich. That my friend is very much part of the problem rather than the solution.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:58 pm

Agree completely, but you see that the colleges have got themselves in the position that a degree is necessary even when useless.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:17 pm

It's the college that teaches, not hires or dictates what type of degree (if any) is necessary for what job. Perhaps business has gotten to the point where they found a way to discriminate legally or feel that by hiring someone with more possible potential will somehow work to their advantage. In my experience many of the smarter ones I ran across were just using U.S.Steel as a line on their resume in hopes of soon moving on & had no intention of wasting their degree there. Then there were others that didn't know what I was talking about when I asked what they were doing there & they were the ones that are most likely still there earning less than what I did.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: homecomfort On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:15 pm

franco b wrote:
samhill wrote: In any event it seems that for most we have reached the point where that degree is no longer worth the investment.

That's the point. By making all that money available, demand goes up and colleges take advantage and students are stuck with a higher bill than would otherwise be.

Of course a lot of what is taught is useless anyway.

let me see if I understand, making education loan$ available to students, is bad because then students use it to get an education, forcing schools to cope with higher education demand, and wasting the money since no none really needs the education in the first place, and then, the educated student, with his worthless education, now has to pay back the low interest loan. I am missing something here I hope.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:34 pm

homecomfort wrote:
franco b wrote:
samhill wrote: In any event it seems that for most we have reached the point where that degree is no longer worth the investment.

That's the point. By making all that money available, demand goes up and colleges take advantage and students are stuck with a higher bill than would otherwise be.

Of course a lot of what is taught is useless anyway.

let me see if I understand, making education loan$ available to students, is bad because then students use it to get an education, forcing schools to cope with higher education demand, and wasting the money since no none really needs the education in the first place, and then, the educated student, with his worthless education, now has to pay back the low interest loan. I am missing something here I hope.


The part you're missing is that government money provides an artificial floor for tuition.

At the same time, it over stimulates demand because people who otherwise wouldn't or couldn't go to school are now able to. They have to take "something" so pretty soon, you have an overabundance of people with IT degrees and the degree doesn't mean jack.

Sam as usual, puts the cart before the horse. People don't get degrees because employers demand them, employers can demand them because everyone and their brother has one. Why take on an expensive training program with unknown results when the employees will take on all the risk and the cost themselves?
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:12 am

Once again Jpete your logic astounds me, now you the Gov. money for these loans have always been there but just run by banks that reaped the profit from our money, a school takes X amt. of students. As one that is either going thru or as gone thru a Gov. paid education program yourself. You do realize don't you that there was a time that HVAC didn't require much more than HVAC knowledge the same as when I got my realtors license all I had to do was pass the test. Do half of the classes you now have to attend have anything at all to do with the job? I went into apprenticeship programs to get my trade journeyman papers, those costs to the Co. were minimal & more than paid for by my labor, the unqualified were quickly weeded out by a test given before hand that you took on your own time.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:10 pm

samhill wrote:Once again Jpete your logic astounds me, now you the Gov. money for these loans have always been there but just run by banks that reaped the profit from our money, a school takes X amt. of students. As one that is either going thru or as gone thru a Gov. paid education program yourself. You do realize don't you that there was a time that HVAC didn't require much more than HVAC knowledge the same as when I got my realtors license all I had to do was pass the test. Do half of the classes you now have to attend have anything at all to do with the job? I went into apprenticeship programs to get my trade journeyman papers, those costs to the Co. were minimal & more than paid for by my labor, the unqualified were quickly weeded out by a test given before hand that you took on your own time.


I understand that Sam. I'm living it. I'm just telling you how it is.

You're right, I really didn't need English I, English II and 3 liberal arts electives to learn how to fix air conditioners. Unfortunately, it's REQUIRED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to get the degree.

The government decided more people "should" get a degree so they applied the dollars. If you own a business, are you going to pay a guy with no degree to work while he learns or are you going to let the individual take on the cost and responsibility of learning the trade?

Especially if you know the government is paying for it or at least subsidizing it? You can require the degree, let the school weed out the bottom dwellers and pick from the rest.

And don't forget the other REQUIRED government licensing I need. I have to pass a four part EPA test to work on different types of refrigeration systems and I need a pipe fitting license with an electrical rating to work on heating appliances other than gas fueled. I need a different license for that.
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:51 pm

There to Jpete I think a lot of those you mention are either state or county requirements, my son is OK to work in most tri=state areas but needs a certain $ license$ to work both in Pittsburgh & a few other cities out of state. Do you think all these requirements are to protect consumers (who you always say should just sue) or to create income for the different governing bodies & forcing the little guys out of business?
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:47 pm

You have to have EPA Section 608 certification in "core" and at least Type I, II, or III categories to be able to legally work on any equipment that uses freon. And Section 609 certification if you want to work on mobile air conditioning systems(automotive, etc)

That's Federal.

The other things are just for the government to make money and drive the non union shops out of business. It costs money and time just for a shop to register with the state to provide apprenticeship training.

I need 2000 hours in a REGISTERED shop as an apprentice to test for my journeyman. Then another 4000 hours to sit for my master license. And then, if I want to give the state $1000 to hang out my shingle, I can be self employed and REALLY start paying taxes! :)

Or I can move to New Hampshire where all I need is a gas technician license and work without the permission of the state.

Which do you think I'm going to choose?
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Re: Obama's War on the Young

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Well there you go, my son can work on everything like I had said & he had all that while still in HS, he did have to put a lot of extra hours in after normal class hours but that's all it took in Pa. in the early 90s.
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