Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:45 am

Ok so I've drank myself stupid, got a good nights sleep, and have accepted the fact the Blazer engine has to come out yet again (ironically at the EXACT same time I did so last year! :| ).

Seeing that under no circumstances do I want to do this a 3rd time, I want to tackle all the crap that I think may fail sometime within the next 5 years or so (should be able to cobble the body together as I go - winter vehicle after all ...).

I had planned just to do every single seal & gasket in the engine: oil pan, timing cover, head gaskets, rear main seal, and, hopefully I SHOULD be able to re-use the intake gaskets - we shall see when I get to that part. So the more I thought about it, it seems reasonable to replace the oil pump, timing gears/chain, and rod bearings. But you know how these things go .... I started thinking ... well, if I'm going to do head gaskets, I might as well by rings .... then I might as well by pistons .... then rods, then lifters, then ......... you see how this goes.

My thinking is I'd rather not do the rings, as the truck runs BEAUTIFULLY - plenty of power, starts right up no problem, and not a hint of smoke. If it ain't broke, don't fix it .... ya know?

Now with the rod bearings ... should I do the mains as well?

Basically I'd like some input on which way to go. Should I just grab rings, give a quick hone and be done? I'd rather not reduce the efficiency by creating MORE clearance by honing ... but the new rings SHOULD help that .... I don't know. Obviously a short block is the way to go ... but at $1,700 for a 4.3 that is so far out of the question it's in another dimension. My budget is WAY UNDER $500 ... but if I have to replace something, it can go on the card for a month or so.

What say you, fellow motorheads? :gee:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:49 am

if its high milage and you think your going the bearing and ring method, well if you dont do cam brgs then your still doing a 1/2
azz job, so i would pull a rod cap and maybe a main and from there determine..... 8-)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:55 am

I was getting ahead of myself trying to order parts before I even got the engine out of the truck .... :lol:

Your right - good point. Definitely got to see what I've got in there. Only time I ever heard the slightest hint of rod knock was after the engine swap - I ran Amsoil 0w-30 because I had a case of it sitting unused, and it's damn good oil. When the engine idled down real low, you could slightly hear a dull knock. Haven't heard that since. Now I;ve got 10w-30 Zrod in there.

Engine had 146k before the swap. Now I estimate it (odometer quit) to be roughly 160k miles. Not like these engines are failure prone to start with ... but I'd rather not have to get in here again.

I think at the very least I'll do the mains & rod bearings, and throw a set of valve seals in.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler


Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:03 am

I wouldn't do any bearing until I measure them. Get that....ohhh what do they call it... Plasti-gauge? You remove a bearing cap, stick in this plastic rod, replace the bearing cap & torque it to specs, squishing the plastic rod, then remove and measure how wide the plastic squished to. A chart tells you how much slack there is.

Other than that, you could follow my Dad's advice: "Jack up the radiator cap and slide a new engine under it."
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:13 am

smitty did look into a different motor with less miles? if your getting rod knock the crank might be getting a little out of round, so you might have machine work along with the parts, where do you buy your parts at ?? on all major rebuilds, i use rockauto.com look for the code to get the extra 5% off, the 5% adds up on large orders.

Jeff
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:23 am

Yep - Plastiguage. Used that alot in the motorcycle world when I was working for a dealership. Lots of old bikes still on the road out in Phoenix with an obscene number of miles on them!

I wasn't even going to get that technical. I was just going to buy standard sized bearings, slap them in & run with it. Basically what I did on the Focus, & it runs great.

Yeah Jeff I looked on eBay/ Craigslist last night ... but lots of guys getting top dollar for used stuff out there. I found a couple in my price range - one had 268K miles .... the other ..... 318K! :shock: Both out of late model pickups too.

Usually just buy all my stuff at Advance Auto. I've got between 20-30 % off with online coupon codes. Not the best parts, but fits my budget.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:30 am

SMITTY wrote:Yep - Plastiguage. Used that alot in the motorcycle world when I was working for a dealership. Lots of old bikes still on the road out in Phoenix with an obscene number of miles on them!

I wasn't even going to get that technical. I was just going to buy standard sized bearings, slap them in & run with it. Basically what I did on the Focus, & it runs great.

Yeah Jeff I looked on eBay/ Craigslist last night ... but lots of guys getting top dollar for used stuff out there. I found a couple in my price range - one had 268K miles .... the other ..... 318K! :shock: Both out of late model pickups too.

Usually just buy all my stuff at Advance Auto. I've got between 20-30 % off with online coupon codes. Not the best parts, but fits my budget.


even with the 20 to 30% off rock auto beats there prices buy a ton when you buys stuff from rockauto rember no sale tax from rockauto just shipping charges and the 5% off with code wipes that right out
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:32 am

RAYJAY wrote:
SMITTY wrote:Yep - Plastiguage. Used that alot in the motorcycle world when I was working for a dealership. Lots of old bikes still on the road out in Phoenix with an obscene number of miles on them!

I wasn't even going to get that technical. I was just going to buy standard sized bearings, slap them in & run with it. Basically what I did on the Focus, & it runs great.

Yeah Jeff I looked on eBay/ Craigslist last night ... but lots of guys getting top dollar for used stuff out there. I found a couple in my price range - one had 268K miles .... the other ..... 318K! :shock: Both out of late model pickups too.

Usually just buy all my stuff at Advance Auto. I've got between 20-30 % off with online coupon codes. Not the best parts, but fits my budget.


even with the 20 to 30% off rock auto beats there prices buy a ton when you buys stuff from rockauto rember no sale tax from rockauto just shipping charges and the 5% off with code wipes that right out



also try some of the pick and pulls in your area for a price, e-bay a lot of the time does not give the market price on parts
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:35 am

Yeah I might have to call a place up the road here & see what they've got.

I've shopped Rock Auto a few times. I've found it hit or miss. Some stuff is cheaper, but some stuff is substantially more than I can get from Advance. Advance offers free shipping over $75, so it ends up usually that the shipping charges at Rock outweigh the sales tax savings. I've bought a few things there, but when I add everything up, it's 95% of the time cheaper at Advance. Plus there's stores all around me, so if they send the wrong part it's just a short trip down the road for an exchange or refund.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:50 pm

darn good engine... I have 2 of em and both over 180K.... amsoil 20-50
one of em switched to the 15-50 racing. i run it hard! guess the timing chain it quite streched by now :o :)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:49 pm

Does the engine in question have acceptable oil pressure at a hot idle?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Smitty your time is valuable too. I would advise you to do a few more easy repairs for customers until you can get a long block.

I spent countless hours on that same motor when I had my Jimmy. That motor came to me with spun main bearings because the kid drove it with the oil light on. It blew a remote oil line. They had just put money into it after it sat for a year with no windshield and the front clip smashed. The kid's brother had previously run the truck off the end of Longview road when the GM factory defective ABS let the pedal go to the floor! I liked that Jimmy but it was tight to work on.

If you're just having fun Ok, but if you put rod and main bearings in, what about the wrist pins? Piston fatigue? Runout on the crank? Lifters and lifter bores? Schmutz in the oil galleys? Also, if you just hone the cylinders, they still could be out of perfect cylindrical shape from normal wear. Could be wider in the middle.

So if you're gonna have fun, more power to you! Otherwise the addage: Don't fix it if it aint broke. :D

The 5.7 in my Sierra came from Ebay, some small shop in Philly. The long block was under $1000, ( few years ago) best price I could find anywhere. I took a chance. Some poor grunt showed up in a box truck, I had to fix the gate lift to get the engine off the truck. Then he backed up over a rock and busted the bung out of the right side diesel tank! Diesel was pouring out. I ran in the shop and grabbed a piece of wood closet rod, belt sanded it into a cone, ran back out and pounded it into the tank bottom before all the fuel ran out! Ya caint make this *censored* up.

I got the engine done and have been driving on it ever since. It always had a slight bonk in it like you describe, from the get-go.

So there's my free advice that's worth what it costs---nothin :D

All I did today was get the old Homelite xl running, but I will have to run it now without the auto oiler. I see the mechanism but somehow it's pushing too much bar oil, making the engine smoke, and getting it on the clutch which is disastrous. I'll just oil it out of a pump can as I go.
Dann757
 

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:51 pm

:woot: :funny: That was a great story - I got the visual on that - can totally see that happening. Usually that *censored* happens to me! Sometimes I feel like my life is a movie. :lol:



Welp, I've got the engine in the barn all covered in a bed sheet, to keep the dust off it the Marquis kicks up every time it comes in the garage. Everything in there has a layer of the *censored* on it. Definitely NOT the place to be doing precision engine work, but until that future lotto tic pays off, it is what it is. I won't hold my breath ...

Definitely not having fun here. Not making any money working on my own *censored*, which sucks. I could've had that Focus cleaned up and probably sold by now ... but here I am. Just want this engine to last a few hundred thou longer than it was designed to. ;)

Anyway, flipped the engine upside down on the stand & got in there with a flashlight. All the cylinders still have most of the crosshatch left in them ... slightly glazed, but the undersides of the pistons were REAL clean - not what I was expecting. Could see most of the cam from there as well - nothing that jumped out at me there. Looks good. Turning the engine over by hand told me all I need to know about the internals - this engine is solid - I'm not gonna screw with any part of it, except the oil pump, screen, timing chain, & head gaskets. Even turning it slow by hand the piston rings had very slow leakdown, and each one sounded & felt the same. Lots of compression resistance. Should've done a REAL compression/leakdown test on it, but I was so pissed that I had to yank the engine again ... that was the last thing on my mind. The thing runs strong - REAL strong for a 6, so I don't much care about the numbers. Oil pressure was always good hot - much higher than the old engine using the exact same gauge & sending unit.

Being that this engine spent 80% of it's life in a rental vehicle, I have to say that this could be engine #2 for the Jimmy in it's lifetime - it was just much nicer looking in there than I expected - definitely doesn't look like a high mile engine based on past experience. Very simple design - identical to a 350, minus the 2 cylinders in front, and with a goofy offset crankshaft, & a counterbalancer in the lifter galley.

Only bad things I found were LOTS of slop in the timing chain - about a 1/2" (!!), and a thick layer of sludge at the bottom of the oil pan. Judging from the condition of the cooling system when I bought the Jimmy with 106k on the clock, that was probably from the same lack of maintenance with the engine oil. Luckily that person didn't own it very long. She was the first private, non-rental owner, and had a lien on it. Was very apparent that maintenance was not her forte. It then went to auction, and was bought by a dealer in GA that I bought it from. They detailed the hell out of it - made it look showroom mint ... and even though I know better, I fell for it. But this engine is much happier sans all the unreliable resistors, capacitors, chips, & circuits it once had.

Spent nearly it's entire life in FL & GA, and the pistons had no signs of scorching on the undersides. That was surprising to me. Even the Focus had charred, black deposits under each piston. But that's the main reason I want to change every gasket. Southern states are very tough on rubber & plastic products. Just the fact that it didn't leak everything everywhere tells me this engine's been freshened up or replaced once before.

I'm just going to order up the aforementioned parts, along with the gaskets - all of them, and maybe a set of brass freeze plugs, and call it a day. Now I get to do the barn roof while I wait for parts. Of course, guess what the forecast looks like? :mad:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:55 pm

From what I remember, those 4.3 had issues with the intake gaskets. Check them out real good...............


Perhaps get some clunker motor on the real cheap and rebuild it so you can just do a swap......

Whatever you do, don't cheap out. If in doubt, change the stuff....



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
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Re: Ok motorheads: how much of a "partial" rebuild would you do?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:02 am

Did them last year when I installed the intake manifold. The OEM ones were busted in at least 5 places, so that was probably the reason for the P0300 in the Jimmy. They were the plastic framed ones with rubber inlays - real shitty design destined to fail. I replaced them with what Edelbrock recommended, which was a GM part, but MUCH better than the originals.

Hopefully I can re-use them after doing the head gaskets. We shall see ...

I think I'll just stick with this engine. It's been good to us (aside from all the OBD-II bullshit we had to deal with in the Jimmy) for over 50,000 miles so far. Anything I get from the boneyard I'm sure will be worse. Really don't have the cash right now to be doing this in the first place, so I'm gonna run what I brung & hope for the best. At least I can run Amsoil in it now & not go broke leaving it on every street. :lol:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler