If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: mason coal burner On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:26 pm

Look up the legal definition of the word "income" it means profit earned from an investment .
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:49 pm

mason coal burner wrote:Look up the legal definition of the word "income" it means profit earned from an investment .


I thought it meant that portion of revenue remaining after a company or corporation balanced all expenses against receipts. I believe the Supreme Court actually defined it as such at some juncture.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Dann757 On: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:29 pm

Well if you work for the gubmint it means a lifetime guarantee of taxpayer's spondolas, pesos, lucre, sheckles, coin, greenbacks, sawbucks, tenspots, franklins, denaro, lira, francs, dead presidents or dirty paper :D
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:32 pm

So what you're saying is----MONEY? ;)
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:49 pm

If individuals computed their income the way corporations do (I.E. per the Supreme Court definition of income) then their taxable income would be what they have left after all bills are paid and all of the families food, lodging, clothing, health, and transportation expenses, etc... are all accounted for . At the end of the year most of us would have little that could be taxed.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: mason coal burner On: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:12 pm

So you are saying they should be sending me checks .
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:15 am

Then with the supreme court ruling that corporations are people that should make their way of determining income null & void & they should have to pay just like a person.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: cokehead On: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:01 pm

This gives a snip-it of what Gary Johnson thinks about taxes and the IRS.

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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:47 pm

lsayre wrote:Thomas Jefferson proposed that the President and Congress work without pay. He was shot down on that one. He probably never envisioned lobbyists and money plus perks galore under the table either.

Of course the Constitution clearly says that Congress shall assemble at least once every year, and for that they can probably do so out of the goodness of the heart instead of with pay. The Constitution well defines their very limited roll, and once a year is apparently enough to fulfill it. There was never any intent to have them meeting endlessly and passing new laws by the day.


Ironically, he got that idea from the Brits as that was their policy all the way into the 20th century.

Woohoo, got to use my History degree!


As for taxes. Taxes are a necessary part of civilized society. They pay for a lot of things we need and probably a good many things we personally dont want but someone else probably does. Basically, you're never going to agree with 100% of a government's spending (whether it be your town, state, or the US Gov't). That's life.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Davian wrote:[

As for taxes. Taxes are a necessary part of civilized society. They pay for a lot of things we need and probably a good many things we personally dont want but someone else probably does. Basically, you're never going to agree with 100% of a government's spending (whether it be your town, state, or the US Gov't). That's life.


Really?!

So without government, we'd still be living in caves killing each other in tribal wars?
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:43 am

"So without government, we'd still be living in caves killing each other in tribal wars?"

Without the "living in caves" part of that comment, you have described most of the Mid-East & Northern Africa....

With "living in caves" left in that comment, you have described Afghanistan. :!:
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Davian On: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:23 pm

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:[

As for taxes. Taxes are a necessary part of civilized society. They pay for a lot of things we need and probably a good many things we personally dont want but someone else probably does. Basically, you're never going to agree with 100% of a government's spending (whether it be your town, state, or the US Gov't). That's life.


Really?!

So without government, we'd still be living in caves killing each other in tribal wars?


You'd probably love Somalia...tax-free paradise.

Please name a single civilized country or culture where the people didn't pay some form of taxes. I wont hold my breath as its impossible to do so. Taxes are merely part of the social contract that involves citizens paying some sort of obligation to their country for the good of all and that government/country providing certain benefits in return.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:32 pm

Davian wrote:You'd probably love Somalia...tax-free paradise.

Please name a single civilized country or culture where the people didn't pay some form of taxes. I wont hold my breath as its impossible to do so. Taxes are merely part of the social contract that involves citizens paying some sort of obligation to their country for the good of all and that government/country providing certain benefits in return.


Even the Somalian economy is doing better than us.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/so.html

Despite the lack of effective national governance, Somalia has maintained a healthy informal economy, largely based on livestock, remittance/money transfer companies, and telecommunications.


I've never said "no taxes". But the idea of income and property taxes turns you into no more than a share cropper who has to pay the land owner for the privilege of working.

How did we survive until 1913 when we got the permanent income tax?
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Davian On: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:44 pm

But the idea of income and property taxes turns you into no more than a share cropper who has to pay the land owner for the privilege of working.

How did we survive until 1913 when we got the permanent income tax?


Income came from taxes on goods, trade (excise taxes in imports and exports) and property taxes of course. Those property taxes that make you a "sharecropper" have been around as long as we've had a country. Ironically, the taxes on income are the reason its easier for the average citizen to own property than it was 100 years ago before they became widespread. And income taxes existed during times of need before 1913 as well...mostly times of war like the Civil War. Pretty much the most recent wars in Iraq & Afghanistan are the only wars in history where the government massively cut taxes while at the same time massively increasing spending.

So again, you will always pay taxes...unless you'd like to live in Somalia. I'd highly recommend it, I'm sure they'd love you there. And their economy is doing great...so great that they turn to piracy as there literally no economy there. Unless you count a $600 per capita GDP as fantastic. I dont, but I'm odd that way.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:00 am

Care to explain how the government taking 1/3 of your income makes it "easier" to buy property?

But you are correct, taxes were on "things", not your labor. That's only been true since Prohibition. Now you get double teamed because they tax BOTH!

That "we've always had property taxes" is more or less true, but it also assumes that the government owns everything and charges you rent for using it.

Doesn't sound like the "land of the free" to me.


http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/fisher.property.tax.history.us
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


https://secure.sauder.ubc.ca/re_creditp ... arlson.pdf
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