If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

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If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:38 pm

and draw a paycheck that was extorted from those who honestly earned it?

The recent Chicago teachers strike has me wondering.
lsayre
 
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: smithy On: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:41 pm

The work done by a constant force of magnitude F on a point that moves a distance d in the direction of the force is the product,



W=fd.
in others words government doesn't work for you you work for government
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:38 am

Why would you say taxation is theft? Even in the Bible it says give unto Caeser.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:49 pm

If you do not voluntarily agree to it, it is theft.

It's sort of like the old saying:
Kill a few, you're a murderer, kill a million, you're a conqueror.

Only it becomes:
Rob a few, you're a thief, rob a million, you're a government.

How many robbers does it take to turn something that is obviously illegal and immoral into something that is legal and moral?
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: mason coal burner On: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:37 pm

Taxing your labor is theft . Other taxes are lawfull . Such as corporate tax , taxing alien residents , tariffs . Property tax is the most ridiculous tax I have ever heard of . Why did we ever let them start taxing our property . It sounds like the old days in England , Ireland , Scotland .
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:53 pm

Involuntary taxation is theft. Property and income tax being the most obvious.

Sales tax, import/export tariffs etc are voluntary because you can choose not to pay them if you don't buy the product/service.

While I don't know if working for the government is "immoral", I think expecting to get unlimited compensation might be.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:38 am

lsayre wrote:If you do not voluntarily agree to it, it is theft.


And yet, we all DO voluntarily agree to it. Last I knew every one of us is free to leave any time we want.

It's fun to argue and disagree about taxes but I think there's a lot of truth to the bumper sticker: "It sucks in the United States, but, it sucks less than anyplace else on Earth".
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: cokehead On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:24 am

Freddy wrote:
lsayre wrote:If you do not voluntarily agree to it, it is theft.


And yet, we all DO voluntarily agree to it. Last I knew every one of us is free to leave any time we want.

It's fun to argue and disagree about taxes but I think there's a lot of truth to the bumper sticker: "It sucks in the United States, but, it sucks less than anyplace else on Earth".


Coercion is why most people submit to paying taxes in this current system. I wouldn't call that voluntary. The bumper sticker is blind patriotism and if we continue on the path of continual war, diminishing rights and reckless spending it will soon be time for a new bumper sticker.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:47 am

Blind Patriotism my ass. Criticize all you want, but don't ever knock PATRIOTISM, something I'm beginning to feel half of you know nothing about--flashback--the one's hiding in the basements whining while the PATRIOTS are out there defending OUR rights--which I think some don't deserve in any way, shape or form :mad: :( Whew, thanx for listenin, I feel a hell of a lot better:)
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:54 pm

freetown fred wrote:Blind Patriotism my ass. Criticize all you want, but don't ever knock PATRIOTISM, something I'm beginning to feel half of you know nothing about--flashback--the one's hiding in the basements whining while the PATRIOTS are out there defending OUR rights--which I think some don't deserve in any way, shape or form :mad: :( Whew, thanx for listenin, I feel a hell of a lot better:)


There's "patriotism", and then there's "nationalism".

And I think many people confuse the two.

The last war that threatened to take away our rights was around 1812. All the others since were for political or economic reasons.

The Founding Fathers were called "patriots" as they were fighting their government so don't say a patriot can never merely criticize his government. That's nationalism and it was tried in Germany in the late 30's and didn't work out so well for anyone involved.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:20 pm

AS usual you misread what I wrote :( "Criticize all you want, but don't ever knock PATRIOTISM" It must be tiresome argueing just for the sake of doing so.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:42 pm

freetown fred wrote:AS usual you misread what I wrote :( "Criticize all you want, but don't ever knock PATRIOTISM" It must be tiresome argueing just for the sake of doing so.


How did I misinterpret "the one's hiding in the basements whining while the PATRIOTS are out there defending OUR rights"?

Not EVERY place where US troops are deployed is the front line of "defending our rights". In fact, I don't think anywhere our troops are currently deployed are "defending our rights".

"Patriotism" to me, IS questioning and challenging the government.

Not accepting whatever they tell us is critical to "our rights".
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:39 am

Because I was responding to Freddy's post "It sucks in the United States, but, it sucks less than anyplace else on Earth". Sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm sure that even you won't negate the fact that there always has been and always will be the separation of the whiners & the doers.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:26 am

Thomas Jefferson proposed that the President and Congress work without pay. He was shot down on that one. He probably never envisioned lobbyists and money plus perks galore under the table either.

Of course the Constitution clearly says that Congress shall assemble at least once every year, and for that they can probably do so out of the goodness of the heart instead of with pay. The Constitution well defines their very limited roll, and once a year is apparently enough to fulfill it. There was never any intent to have them meeting endlessly and passing new laws by the day.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If taxation is theft, is it moral to work for the government

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:38 am

jpete wrote:Not EVERY place where US troops are deployed is the front line of "defending our rights". In fact, I don't think anywhere our troops are currently deployed are "defending our rights".
"Patriotism" to me, IS questioning and challenging the government.
Not accepting whatever they tell us is critical to "our rights".

Well said.
But taxation is not theft -- it simply provides opportunity to the thieves by giving them a pot of gold to dip into.
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