Are we there yet?

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:51 pm

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country."
--Theodore Roosevelt

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
--Abraham Lincoln

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
--Patrick Henry

freetown fred · By: **freetown fred** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:56 pm

NO, but I'm sure he didn't anticipate fanatical interpretation this many years down the road. These were good men, good Patriots with good hearts. Remember the idea of updating every 19 yrs so the dead would not be laying the groundwork for the living? It's ashame it was never implimented.

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:06 pm

So lets get down to brass tacks.

Do you believe the government can rightfully record and analyze all of our electronic communications?

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:07 pm

freetown fred wrote:Remember the idea of updating every 19 yrs so the dead would not be laying the groundwork for the living? It's ashame it was never implimented.

Not "updating"..."uprising"

"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson

Dann757 · By: **Dann757** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:45 pm

jpete wrote:Do you believe the government can rightfully record and analyze all of our electronic communications?

Sorry to butt in. Hell no, you tell me; isn't that forbidden by the 4th? How could the founding fathers have anticipated the modern nation? The incredible advances in technology, the ensuing world conflicts. Nobody wants their freedoms encroached upon; but those freedoms have also been fought for by real true patriots that sacrificed everything for our ideals and our flag and our country. How is that patriotism and nationalism bad for a morally grounded and established country?

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Dann757 wrote: How could the founding fathers have anticipated the modern nation?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures

What difference does the form your effects take have to do with the 4A? Why is it important that the Founding Fathers couldn't imagine an iPhone? Your effects are your effects.

Dann757 wrote: Nobody wants their freedoms encroached upon; but those freedoms have also been fought for by real true patriots that sacrificed everything for our ideals and our flag and our country. How is that patriotism and nationalism bad for a morally grounded and established country?

I'm not sure what you are saying here. I agree that no one wants their freedom encroached and that the protection of those freedoms were paid for in blood.

I can't figure out why Sam and Fred's solution is to let the government do it and just "choose" not to have a phone.

I suppose if the government violated the 3A, Sam would just go move into the tree house out back.

Dann757 · By: **Dann757** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:11 pm

jpete wrote:I suppose if the government violated the 3A,

I think the UN would love to have a hand in that.
--------------------------
I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to feel safe and securely protected by my government anymore I'll tell ya that much.

What if I picked up an Army chick and quartered her here overnight? That would be one hell of a violation of the 3rd

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:20 pm

Dann757 wrote:
What if I picked up an Army chick and quartered her here overnight? That would be one hell of a violation of the 3rd

I violated a chick in a government paid for hotel room the night before she shipped out to the Air Force.

Is there a rule against that?

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:53 am

No matter how you want to twist it Jpete, I said you have the right to not buy or use those devices that you feel so threatened by, to my knowledge what your talking about is an App. that you yourself have to download onto your phone you don't have to do it. I know I'm wasting my time typing real slow because somehow you will equate what I said to Adm. Perry on the Great Lakes or the Mongolians invading China but that's your mindset so run with it.

Dann757 · By: **Dann757** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:42 am

samhill wrote:No matter how you want to twist it Jpete, I said you have the right to not buy or use those devices that you feel so threatened by,

I think the guy is worried about the threat of a fascist, overbearing, controlling, oppressive government. You know, what Obama wants. It starts with a lot of propaganda and then they disarm the population, you know,what Holder wants.

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:01 am

Besides last week when they came for my guns & they killed me for non-compliance things have been pretty quiet around here at least until the first day of duck. Then too if they have to use slingshots with gravel it will stay pretty quiet. Still have the guns they couldn't find shh.
Besides everything else Foxconn, the Chinese supplier that makes a lot of the phones or parts has shut down due to riots in the dorms for workers & it spread out into the streets with several thousand workers taking part.

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:17 am

I suppose we could choose to never go out in public right Sam?

http://blogs.computerworld.com/privacy/ ... spy-crowds

A Florida intelligence officer admitted that undercover police were mingling with the public, using their smartphones to take videos and photos to spy on “suspicious” citizens. Then the undetected cops could determine a person’s name by checking the image against a facial recognition database. That is precisely what happened at the 2012 Republican National Convention in Tampa, according to a report from the National Journal.

Sing it with me! "IF you're not doing anything wrong...."

Baa baa little sheep.

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:44 am

So what is the point? Unless you live under a rock you may have noticed that there are cameras everywhere that there are lots of people & crime, it's the technology we live with today. Years ago my wife's car was hit in a parking lot & the woman refused to pay, the cops had it all on film from the security cams. Because the technology is there do you think the cops don't have a right to use it but a private citizen does? I,m sure the same went on at the DNC, either don't go out or wear a mask but remember not to walk into banks or stores.

jpete · By: **jpete** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:05 pm

samhill wrote:So what is the point? Unless you live under a rock you may have noticed that there are cameras everywhere that there are lots of people & crime, it's the technology we live with today. Years ago my wife's car was hit in a parking lot & the woman refused to pay, the cops had it all on film from the security cams. Because the technology is there do you think the cops don't have a right to use it but a private citizen does? I,m sure the same went on at the DNC, either don't go out or wear a mask but remember not to walk into banks or stores.

Do you understand the difference between private companies and government Sam?

I believe you took an oath to uphold the Constitution, have you ever READ it?

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:18 pm

I read it & there is nothing about the use of cell phones or cameras, maybe I have to get a new Jpete Edition, "The Constitution As Only I Can Interpret It".

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