A few questions...

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:23 pm

Non-*censored*-stop one step forward and two steps back with this thing. One of the adjustable elbows on the smoke pipe was a little tweaked while I was fitting it and a seam popped. Great. Then the icing on the cake.....Go to put the fire inspection door on the front. These damn allen head set screws won't turn. Try a 3/8" drive socket with allen key, no dice. Twisted that thing up like a pretzel. Heat....propane torch wasn't enough and I don't have anything else. I figure I'll drill it out like I have the last 3 times a bolt broke on this project. Get it drilled and start tapping....SNAP. Now I have to figure out how to get a tap out of a hole. Looks like I will be paying a machine shop to get the broken tap out. Really starting to think I should have spent the extra money on a new leisure line boiler.

Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:52 am

If you don't have acetylene and the right drilling equipment, bringing the parts to a machine shop is a smart move.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:23 pm

I got a fire going last night in the EFM350!! It has been going strong since then and my house is a nice even 70 degrees. The basement is staying around 68 as well. Probably not the best weekend to light up as it was over 60 yesterday and still warm today, but my draft has been fine. I still need to do some tweaking, but I haven't lost a fire yet with 160 low, 210 high, with a 15 degree differential. There hasn't been many calls for heat other than the initial startup and this morning due to the 3 degree setback on my tstat.

I have been contemplating dropping to 3 feed and 3.25 air from 4/4, as the boiler has been hovering around 210 since last night. I will get a picture of the fire near the end of a timer cycle sometime soon for some feedback.

I am still trying to figure out what the notches on the timer wheel mean...It looks like there is two zeros, one for 1 hour settings and one for half hour settings...Does that sound right? Also, can everyone here their timer going click click click constantly? Not annoying just noticeable and the timer motor itself seems warm to the touch.

It sure does feel nice having 4 ton of rice coal around, the house at 70, and the boiler just idling along quietly. Oh and the oil gauge isn't moving, which is nice!

Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:36 pm

First off, congrats on getting it fired. When you first start a fire it is easy to get a big fire and really heat up the boiler. What is your timer set at?

As for the running hot part, are you sure the control is wired properly? If you load the boiler does the stoker kick on at 145?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:51 pm

Rob,

I am pretty sure that it is wired and operating correctly. I don't know how I could get it down to 145 without shutting it off, and I'm afraid that I would lose the fire. The only thing that is making the boiler run now is the timer, unless it bumps the high limit and shuts off. The boiler temp will drop below 210, it is actually right at 200 now, but the timer kicks on for a few minutes and bumps the high limit.

It is too warm out for there to be many heat calls to help drop the boiler temperature unfortunately. Last night I did force it to run by bringing the low limit dial up to 5 degrees above the boiler temp (I think it was around 190 last night, as that is what my high limit was initially set at).

Thanks,
Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:56 pm

I can't figure out how to read this timer :oops:

Got any hints?

Thanks,
Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:02 pm

I'm not familiar with the timer you described. Can you use a stopwatch to see how long the timer runs the stoker?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Dennis On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:56 pm

JRDepew wrote:I don't know how I could get it down to 145 without shutting it off, and I'm afraid that I would lose the fire. The only thing that is making the boiler run now is the timer, unless it bumps the high limit and shuts off. The boiler temp will drop below 210, it is actually right at 200 now, but the timer kicks on for a few minutes and bumps the high limit.


not sure if you have the DHW coil hooked up and if so turn the hot water spiqot on till the temps drop. Thats the fastest way to knock down the boiler temps.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:28 pm

Rob R. wrote:I'm not familiar with the timer you described. Can you use a stopwatch to see how long the timer runs the stoker?


It is a Will-Burt 20350 timer, and yes I can do that. Going to play with the RC draft control and manometer tomorrow, I will add that to the list. Still 70 degrees in here and 68 in the basement, got home and it looked like there was just a timer call as there were still some actual flames and not just coals. Boiler was sitting at 210 degrees.

Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:29 pm

Dennis wrote:
JRDepew wrote:I don't know how I could get it down to 145 without shutting it off, and I'm afraid that I would lose the fire. The only thing that is making the boiler run now is the timer, unless it bumps the high limit and shuts off. The boiler temp will drop below 210, it is actually right at 200 now, but the timer kicks on for a few minutes and bumps the high limit.


not sure if you have the DHW coil hooked up and if so turn the hot water spiqot on till the temps drop. Thats the fastest way to knock down the boiler temps.


Good idea, but no hot water coil yet. I plan on getting one before next heating season thought, as I am looking at possibly running the boiler year round. As long as the basement temps don't get out of control because we are down there a lot.

Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:44 am

Once you get your draft dialed in you can fine-tune the timer. It sounds like your timer cycle needs to be reduced.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:00 am

Rob,

You called it. The wires going from the timer motor to the screw terminals (behind the fiberglass board) were the opposite of what they should have been, and the motor was turning in reverse! I should have caught this before, but the shape of the notches in the wheel do not allow proper operation if the motor spins in reverse, as there is a hard edge that catches the micro-switch trigger, instead of a nice ramp. This would just leave the timer fixed in the on position, and the boiler temp would bounce off the high limit. I fixed that, then a few hours later noticed that the timer wasn't working, and the switch went bad! When I was changing the wire positions for the motor I must have bumped the switch too hard and it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I picked up a replacement switch today and will get it mounted.

This timer is easy to read after looking at it more, was just confusing at first. I will set it and check with a stopwatch once the new switch is installed.

Another problem I noticed when setting the draft. My basement is too tight unless it is very cold outside to keep an ideal draft when the unit is running. I have the baro weight set far back, so it never opens. At the end of a timer cycle I will have about -0.04" WC, baro not moving. However, if I open the basement door, it shoots to about -0.08" WC instantly. The opposite happens when I close the basement door. I have no operational windows in the basement at the moment as they have all been sealed shut. I am going to have to come up with something quickly in order to remedy this.

Some questions:

How loud should this 20350 timer be? It can be heard throughout a few rooms in the house (the room above the floor joist where it is mounted, and the adjoining rooms). It seems to click a few times a second, nonstop, everyday. If this is normal I will get some isolation mounts and use a piece of flex conduit to attach to it instead of the EMT I am using now. If it isn't normal, then I am guessing that the timer motor is on its last legs. I believe that these timers are serviceable correct? It does seem to be rotating correctly as of right now.

I may get some isolation mounts for the Honeywell RA89A as well, as the hum can be heard in the same rooms during a call for heat, although not as loud as the timer.

How should the ash ring look when at a full burn with 4 air 4 feed? I have some ash that is sticking together and hanging over the edge of the pot. I do not think that I have a full 2 inches of ash around the edge other than where it hangs over the edge of the pot.

More questions to come I'm sure.

Thanks,
Joe
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:51 am

JRDepew wrote:Rob,

You called it. The wires going from the timer motor to the screw terminals (behind the fiberglass board) were the opposite of what they should have been, and the motor was turning in reverse!


That would certainly cause some issues. Look at the bright side, you can check off "testing the high limit control". ;)

JRDepew wrote:However, if I open the basement door, it shoots to about -0.08" WC instantly. The opposite happens when I close the basement door. I have no operational windows in the basement at the moment as they have all been sealed shut. I am going to have to come up with something quickly in order to remedy this.


The draft shoots up to -.08" because you have the baro weight set incorrectly; set the weight on -0.05". It seems like you have a few options to get make-up air, depending on where you want to introduce it. A few ideas: Trim the bottom of the basement door to let air come in along the floor, cut out a vent in the basement door, modify one of the windows, or cut an opening somewhere else.

JRDepew wrote:How loud should this 20350 timer be? It can be heard throughout a few rooms in the house (the room above the floor joist where it is mounted, and the adjoining rooms). It seems to click a few times a second, nonstop, everyday. If this is normal I will get some isolation mounts and use a piece of flex conduit to attach to it instead of the EMT I am using now. If it isn't normal, then I am guessing that the timer motor is on its last legs. I believe that these timers are serviceable correct? It does seem to be rotating correctly as of right now.


You aren't the first person to notice the noise from the timer, an isolation mount should make a noticeable difference.

JRDepew wrote:How should the ash ring look when at a full burn with 4 air 4 feed? I have some ash that is sticking together and hanging over the edge of the pot. I do not think that I have a full 2 inches of ash around the edge other than where it hangs over the edge of the pot.


Make sure you let the stoker run for at least 30 minutes before you "assess" the fire. Generally speaking, the fire should be about the size of the burn plates...if burning coal is creeping onto the burner ring, increase the air a little and retest. Some ash hanging over the side is normal. 4/4 is a great place to start, but sometimes it is necessary to bump the air to 4.25 or even 4.5 if the rice contains a lot of small pieces, or if the coal is slower burning than average.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: JRDepew On: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:54 am

Thanks for all the help so far. I am thinking of installing the MAS-1 from Field Controls.

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/pdfs/46233500.pdf

I am looking into a good way to pipe this directly to the intake of the EFM fan, but the location of the intake does make this a bit challenging. I would also insulate the first few feet of the pipe to minimize heat loss, as this is all just single wall galvanized steel pipe. I actually expected this to cost much more than it does, although I'm sure I will have $100-$150 into it when considering the needed vent pipe, any insulation, etc. It is nice that it doesn't need any electricity as well, so there will be no monthly cost to this unit.

I also have vibration mounts coming in for the timer, although I can't hear it when the wind gets whipping up on this hill toothy
JRDepew
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: A few questions...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:58 am

I am a big fan of the K.I.S.S. policy, and see no reason to complicate things with additional equipment...but you can probably make it work.

Fly ash is corrosive when damp, and my preference is to feed warm & dry air to the blower...not cold and damp from outside.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy