Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:49 pm

Hi all,

Will be burning coal this winter, haven't had time to do firewood enough and what is done is still too green. Haven't got cash for a full fledged new furnace but plan to put a large (used) stove in basement instead, and get air to circulate as best we can. Know some folks with similar age (~150 yr) houses nearby that do this with reasonable success, will be a learning process to be sure. Currently have an unused 8x12 (7x11 ID) tile lined block chimney, thimble in basement, nowhere else.

Question: what have you folks found to be best in this situation? Hopper fed, like a Hitzer 50-93, or hand-fed, like the 82ul, Harman Mk3, Keystoker HF90, etc? Or a third way? Would like to avoid being totally reliant on electricity; stoker seems nice but lotsa moving parts and no heat with no juice.

Basement isn't the nicest place, not ever going to be a finished basement, but not near as bad as some. Plenty of headroom, at least 6 feet if not a bit more.

Thanks much for your input, looking at some stoves this week.

Regards
Jacob
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:54 pm

Hello and welcome to the forum. The Hitzer stoves you just mentioned are great units, and the hopper fed ones are more forgiving for long burn times. The Model 82 is a real workhorse, but it creates a little dust in the immediate area (must open ash door to shake grates).

Regardless of the stove you chose, getting the heat out of the basement will be the hardest part.

Edit: All of the stoves you listed are good units, but I prefer Hitzer and Keystoker for their direct customer service.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:00 pm

Thanks, have been 'lurking' a little while now to learn a bit first. I guess there are a couple additional questions I forgot to ask :oops: Any of these better than others at burning wood? Of course anything with a hopper, it would have to be removable. Also, any difference in maximum sustainable (not glowing red, lol) output? I know what the literature says, but wanted some 'real-world' reports.

Thanks much!
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:07 pm

150 yrs I suspect the house is broke up some, as is my 250 yr old house--I have a 50-93 in the living area--dust not a problem--but in the basement, properly placed floor vents would to the trick of moving heat--make sure you get whatever you get w/ a blower--mine has one--I've seen people do some duct work off basement hand fired also--it really depends on where the stove is going & where you can put your floor vents--I swear by my 50-93--I close the back part of the house down & the front upstairs--kids have all gone on to conquer the world ;) but still heating 2200 sq --the hopper is a must in my opinion. You need to put some more facts out here-- the newer 50-93 has a romovable hopper
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Stove in basement would be right underneath the living room. No 'ceiling' in basement.

About 1700 square feet above grade, maybe 750 on 2nd floor and 950 on 1st floor; basement underneath 750 sf part. Stone and block basement walls, gravel floor. No hatch, two windows and a 2'x2' hole into the garage. Old Riteway wood/coal furnace in basement now, used to be vented into intended stove chimney; not tied into ductwork any more as firebox is rotted badly in several places.

Moderate insulation, cellulose batts (yes, odd, that's what they are, house was redone at some point in the 40s or 50s, rocklath walls) in exterior walls, 'some' blown-in in attic (looking from side vent-more attic insulation is another project that needs to be done.) So around 2400 sf total, counting the basement. OK if the 2nd floor is a little cool, no plumbing up there, just bedrooms. Relatively new replacement vinyl windows, alu siding, very few drafts left (lots of air sealing done this past winter.) Good windbreak outside too.

Current heat is oil FHA, firing at 0.85 gal/hr, about 100k BTU/h at bonnet. Never had thermostat over 62, furnace never ran all that much, but last winter (the part of it when we were here at least) wasn't much of a winter.

I figure on tending stove 2x/day, AM and PM, is this realistic? Don't mind 3x, AM, home from work, and bedtime; wife will be home during the day with the kids, so if really really cold she could mess with it mid-day if needed.
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:44 pm

No ceiling??? just floor boards on trees/ studs?? I've got tree logs ;) You sound prime for the HITZER line of hopper fed. Like Rob said--task will be getting the radiant heat out of the basement--where is the house--town wise--I promise, nobody'll steal ya. Might be someone close enough to do some brain storming with ya.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:46 pm

PS---twice a day is very realistic in the coldest of it all
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:52 pm

2x/d even in coldest part of winter? that would be great! Way less work than wood. (Used at a couple other places, not here.)

Updated profile. Near northern end of Seneca Lake.

Yes, just the floor joists and subfloor of 1st floor. Nothing else to impede flow of heat. Probably would need a few grates cut into floor, or duct runs to/from stove. That TBD after installed, try simple things first then more complex.

Is the 50-93 more substantial than the 82? Looked at an 82 this weekend, a bit taken aback at how thin the steel felt on the upper parts, but I guess the fire is down in the bricks...maybe more a perceived than actual problem...

Thanks for all the input, heading off to bed.

Jacob
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: fastcat On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 am

Where is the chimney located in conjuction with your cellar stairs in the basement? Where is the cellarway located on the first floor? I am hoping it is in the center of the house. Just keep in mind that no matter what stove you get the cellar is going to suck up alot of heat and will have to heat up before you will see good heat upstairs and this will take some time. To be honest it might take a full day. By your avatar I take it that you are on a farm, do you have any baled hay that you can waste? By putting it around your basement walls on the outside may help some. My vote is the 50-93 with removable hopper 100,000 + BTU. If you buy used open the glass door and look at the hopper and slightly up and you will see a nut if it is removable, one nut and bolt and the hopper is out. Check craigs list for Hitzer and anything Hitzer will come up then jump around differant areas. I will jump on there now and edit this if I find anything. :out:

Ok here you go, your old furnace was forced hot air right?
Craigs list posting ID 3246076702 take a look :jawdrop:
I beleive it is a Hitzer 82 with blower and ducting, asking $1000
315-591-6989 Mexico ny
( Hitzer model 82 Furnace is integrated with design and satisfaction. This stove utilizes the basic design of the model 82 stove, while capitalizing on the availability provided by preexisting ductwork. To meet the convenience of our customers this stove was designed to capture the heat produced by the stove and with the provided ductwork, distribute it directly to different locations throughout your home. This provides evenly warm heat to the locations you desire. By having an extra large fuel door and firebox this allows for multiple fuel types and sizes as well as btu ratings of 110,000 btu’s. With this exceptional design this stove has heating capabilities of up to 2,500 square feet. Developed to meet customer’s satisfaction the stove is accompanied with multiple available options to meet your needs. The 82 Furnace may be used as a radiant version or with an optional 980 cfm blower. Another popular option is an air filter housing system that can accompany a blower unit. The latest option for satisfaction and convenience is an optional water coil for heating domestic hot water. This stove can be used as a very cost efficient primary source of heat with amazing heat outputs. Relax and enjoy the qualities of this Hitzer stove.)

Posting ID 3322586581
It looks like a 50-93 but not sure $300 with some coal
out toward you

PostingID 3293056761
50-93 in west monroe asking $1100

Hope this helps :out:
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:57 am

Yep, going to look at that one in Palmyra tomorrow pm. Prob buy it, too, if decent shape. The reason for this post, in fact. Didn't know if its heating output was as good as claimed.

That 82FA in Mexico is also a possibility, if it's still for sale, trying for a little less $ than that though. Figure to see how it goes with a stove first then, if no good, save money and buy a furnace...if furnace, might go stoker...dunno how well a true furnace would run on gravity circulation as the ducts are not near as old as the house and are designed for forced circulation. Figure if I buy stove for short money I can sell it and break even (or better), so won't be really out much but time.

Kinda more of a farm-ette or garden farm, only a couple acres, that cow we owned several years ago at a different location. Price of hay this year I think it'd be cheaper to get blueboard than hay :) Glad we're only buying enough for a May calf this year...round bales, weather better and cost less/ton than small squares.

Chimney is unfortunately not at center of house, it's on an exterior wall but at least sheltered for about half its length (inside garage). Thimble about 8 feet from bottom of stairs. Of course the cellar stairs come up in the kitchen, don't really need extra heat there too much, and the kitchen is a little bit out of the center of the house. But can easily grate into the living room, directly above the stove's probable location, and the stairs to 2nd floor are directly above the stairs into the basement, which is 8' from stove. If I were designing house the chimney would surely be centered, who knows where the original chimney(s) were, no trace left in the basement anywhere.
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Hi Jacob,

I have a Hitzer Model 75 which is the precursor to the Model 82 utility stove. It can put out tremendous heat and don't let the thin metal sides fool you, it can withstand 800 degrees if necessary, from over-firing by mistake. The Model 82FA listed for sale near you would be a great stove. However, the Model 82 lacks two valuable features that can be found on other stoves. First, the ashes can only be shaken after opening the ash door and attaching the handle to the grates manually. Second, and most important, the stove lacks a coal hopper which is tremendously helpful and such a time and labor saver.

You should also look at the DS Machine Stoves. These are great units, and in my opinion, better designed from an engineering standpoint than even the Hitzers. My favorite stove in the world is the DS 1600 Circulator with coal hopper, but you cannot burn wood in it. So, maybe the Hitzer 50-93 with a removable hopper may be best for you since it can burn wood.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:50 pm

Jacob, I think you'll be happy w/ the 50-93
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: Smoker858 On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Did you check the classified adds on this website? I saw 2 Hitzers listed.
Smoker858
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Baseburners & Antiques: Reading Stove Works Penn circa 1900
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: nat gas
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: Smoker858 On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:33 pm

opps sorry I must have imagined it.
Smoker858
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Baseburners & Antiques: Reading Stove Works Penn circa 1900
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: nat gas
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: Hopper fed (50-93) or regular hand-fed for basement?

PostBy: fastcat On: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:06 pm

Just remember if you are going to look at that stove and want to burn some wood check for the bolt in the hopper, in fact call them and ask about it, no bolt you can't remove the hopper.
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix

Visit Hitzer Stoves