Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: RAU On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:41 am

Hello, I have an Efel Montana wood/coal stove. I bought the stove used 3 seasons ago and used it almost exclusively with wood. I want to burn some coal in it this season but I do not have the necesary attatchments that came with this stove to burn coal most importantly the shaker grate. This stove is old and parts are expensive. Finding them all and installing would be a nightmare. I did burn a pail of coal in it last season and it heated the whole house beautifully but with no shaker the fire choked itself right out in a few hours. i thought id be able to just agitate the coal with a poker to shake the ash off but that just doesnt work well at all. The stove has 3 entrance points, 1 thru the main glass front door, 2 thru the side, and 3 a top entrance where you would insert some sort of hopper as an accesory for burning coal. As i said i have none of the coal accesories and cant aford to buy them all either. My plan is to make a shaker grate wich i would manipulate with a hooked piece of rebar thru the side entrance. The bottom grate presently in the stove measures aprox. 8 x 14 inches, i want to get this grate

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/4867/2 ... Grate.html

and have someone cut aprox 1/2 to 3/4 inch off each side in the 8" direction so theres some wiggle room in the bottom of the stove to shake and agitate the coal bed i guess kind of like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60I1t9eX6T8

This stove is made for wood or coal, it has a grate and draws air from underneath with an ashpan below the grate so i dont think I'll have a problem just cant shake the ash down. Anyone have any ideas, suggestions, or see anything wrong with my plan I'd love to hear them.

Thanks alot,
Don
Last edited by RAU on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
RAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Efel
Stove/Furnace Model: Montana

Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:54 am

Don

Don't see why it couldn't be done BUT depending on your location you might be able to find a used coal stove for around $100. Then you wouldn't have any possible headaches or problems if this idea didn't pan out. By some chance the place you bought the stove would they have the old grates?

What state are you in?
Have you looked on Craigslist for a cheap coal stove?

I am sure some more experienced people on this wonderful forum will chime and in and give you some ideas as well. That being said... WECLOME to the forum!
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:25 pm

Welcome to the FORUM RAU. Sounds like it should work to me. Just an old farmers thoughts, but I personally don't like the combo stoves, they seem to be designed for primarily wood with just some grates & sometimes ashpan thrown in. Try it, if you're happy with the outcome, that's all that matters :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

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Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:11 pm

If the stove presently has a fixed grate that is all you need. You will need a slot or two at grate level in the front of the stove to insert a flat poker over the grate to clear the ash. the slot or slots need a cover when not in use.

This system which is used by Efel, Surdiac, and Franco Belge works very well and is simple.

Poker 1/8 by 3/4 by about 20 inches long. Can be offset at the end for better coverage.

The grate in the video will not work. Waste of time.

You need to construct a fire pot to hold the coal out of fire brick.

Submit a picture of the present grate.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: warminmn On: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:12 pm

Thats probably, basicly the same stove as the Surdiac Coachman, Bayard 312, Harmony III, old style that is. Theres a couple good discussions on the forum about them. I put pics of my stove on one of them. I only have one slot in the front of mine though. It will work OK without the hopper. I used mine that way for a while but ended out liking it better with the hopper. Just load her up, banking it to the back, then using the holes you have scrape the ash down with a swiping motion, reload it, open draft to get it burning, then set draft. If its almost out put some small wood on top to speed up the process (someone else suggested that here and it worked good for me) I oversimplified my instructions but you can find more by searching for surdiac.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: RAU On: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:45 am

Thanks for the replies. Heres a pic of the inside of the stove. Ive used it burning wood like this for 3 seasons now. I think i have it assembled right. The dimensions of the firebox shown are roughly 8 x 14 X 3 1/2" deep. Maybe i dont need a shaker grate and just a better fire tending poker or rake and some practice burning coal
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RAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Efel
Stove/Furnace Model: Montana

Re: Efel Montana Stove

PostBy: RAU On: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:15 am

also the 2 times i tried coal burning last season i had a big mound of coal 3 1/2 inches deep around the edges of firebox and much deeper in the center. I got a small wood fire going first and started gradually adding coal. (Nut) I had it going good and throwing off great heat, few hour later stove is cold and fire is out. Im going to do some more experimenting, hopefully with some practice I'll get this running as is
RAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Efel
Stove/Furnace Model: Montana

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:26 pm

You need a fire box of brick on the sides and probably across the front. You have to slide a flat poker at the level of the grate to clear the ash. Nut coal should have a bed 5 or 6 inches deep at least to work well.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: nortcan On: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:31 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum.
As said in the previous message, anthracite burning loves to be in a confine space: round, square or rectangular but all around closed. If not the combustion air coming from under the coal bed will go to the easiest path and by-pass the place where it SHOULD go.
If possible you could try to place fire bricks all around the combustion chamber/fire pot. I made it in my Vig ll and all the ""life"" changed about that stove :) . But some time when modifying at one place, it brings other modifs somewhere else...
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: RAU On: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:13 am

ok I'll try the fire bricks, it just seems like the space im working in is cramped allready before filling with bricks. The very bottom is only 8 x 14 inches. Im going to try this tho. Also in the above pick of my stove you can see that bar across front of the stove. there is just enough room under it at grate level to insert the offset flat poker i just discovered that came with the stove. If i stack bricks behind this bar how will access the grate to shake down? Also do you guys recomend i mortar these bricks with some sort of refractory cement or something? Im a little concerned about knocking a loose brick while tending the fire and cracking the glass. Thanks for the replies
RAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Efel
Stove/Furnace Model: Montana

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:52 am

Use split brick which are 1 1/8 inches thick not full size. See how it works out as to the need for mortar. At least do the sides. For the front the brick could be notched for the poker or if there is at least 3 1/2 to 4 inches depth try it that way and bank the coal toward the back.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: efelmontanastove On: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:57 pm

Just looking for some info and or advice from a fellow owner, I recently purchased a house with an efel montana stove here in Michigan. I haven't used it yet, It does have a shaker grate, but coal is not popular ( it's hard to find/get) here, so I plan to burn wood.

You mentioned you had used yours with wood for a number of years. I have never had a stove with a top loading door, How well does it work?
Does the draft draw the smoke away from the top door for loading?
Do I open the air control all the way first?
Open the front door?
Any advice would be appreciated

Sincerely
efelmontanastove
efelmontanastove
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: efel montana, art garland

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: warminmn On: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:31 pm

The top loading door is for a coal hopper to fit into and to load coal thru, not wood. If yours has the side door, load as much wood as you can thru that and you will get less smoke.

the shaker part of your grate is almost useless. You use a slicer tool thru the front of the stove where a slot is located. Do a search on slicer. Or just scrape it thru the grate from your side door if you have one, and I think you might. Either cover most of the grate with a piece of metal or let most of it build up ash so you dont go thru wood as fast.

You can put a draft inducer on the pipe if you want to suck smoke while you open the door. A fellow member did that and loved it.

The original gaskets are crap, all dry rotted. so if you are smelling a lot of smoke when you burn it replace them all.

If youve still got the slotted glass, expect to replace that with a solid piece at some point. Send me a private message if you decide to do that and I'll dig for the glass pattern order number I used so you can order a duplicate which is over 100.

I burn mostly soft maple in mine so it can get pretty smokey. I like burning coal in it a lot better than wood.

i also stuck a real thick piece of steel in front of the glass to protect it, plus I can get a deeper coal bed that way.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: efelmontanastove On: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:38 pm

Thank you warminmn.

I really appreciate the reply.
I had not thought of adding the draft inducer for loading, thats a great idea.!
I live in SE Mich, and have not located a good source of coal in my area, I work about half of each winter for a friends restoration shop in central PA, there we heat the shop with a coal stove, which I have learned to "drive" over the last few years, love it.

For now I have a large supply of mixed Oak, maple and Ash, well seasoned, so that will be my fuel of choice at least for this year and part of next.

I appreciate the input on the slicer rather than the shaker grate, eventualy i'll find a source of coal and that will come in very handy. At that time I'll probably either hunt down a hopper for the coal, or measure one and replicate it. So far I'm very happy with the efel montana, seems to be very well made, and a lot more practical than burning in my antique Art Garland Parlour Stove Base Burner. Time will tell.

I am going to have to replace the glass, is cracked and a corner is missing, I think I found it online for $150.00

Have you ever heard of anyone converting one of these for Outside air intake? ( looks like I would have to fabricate a sheet metal "box" around the outside right rear corner of the stove, over the intake damper, then attach my air supply to that. Tricky but do-able with a box and pan brake. Just not sure if it is worth it?

Again, thank you for the reply
efelmontanastove
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: efel montana, art garland

Re: Efel Montana Stove Without Shaker Grate

PostBy: warminmn On: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:09 pm

The hoppers are unavailable new anymore, I think anyway. They were over $200 for each half when they were. They do alright without a hopper too on coal, just a little more work and shorter burn times. You should have anthracite coal available somewhere near you if you are in SE MI.

You need a special glass for coal. Dont reorder those strips. Expensive and dont last. I'll dig tomorrow for the info you need on the glass. The glass will soot up quick with wood, be warned.

If your going to burn wood you need a protector in front for the glass. I'll take a pic tomorrow of what I did there. You may be able to dream up something better than what I did.

unfortunetly my grate got cracked this year or late last year somehow so its on borrowed time. Its still functioning but when it breaks its done burning coal. I'll put in a shed and burn wood in it. With the design of the stove it is likely from ash buildup under the grate. You never want the ash to get up to the grate or even real close. That can be tough to do because its a shallow ash pan but you have to keep up with it. Thats probably the worst part of the stove, how shallow the pan is. But for what I paid for it the stove did alright and will last a long time in the shed so its all good.

I know hardly anything about your air intake question.

Heres a link with a little more info you may be able to use from a couple years ago. Nester Martin Coal stoves ?
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

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