DS Machine Quality Control

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:39 pm

rberq wrote:
oldsch wrote:It almost sounds like the front sheet metal that the door frames bolt to is not flat. I could see having a casting problem in one door frame but both seems unlikely.

Are the door frames cast iron, or are they steel? My metallurgy skills are such that all I know is they are black. :lol:
A straight-edge shows the stove body to be flat.


I'm pretty sure the flange the door mounts to if cast. It's bolted to the 1/4" plate steel body.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: oliver power On: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:48 am

EarthWindandFire wrote:These are true concerns, I am planning on a DS Circulator or 300-9 hot air furnace for next season. Hopefully they become aware of the issues and work hard to resolve them. I'm sure David and Amos would be willing to address anyone's stove issues immediately to the best of their abilities.
I too am watching this quality control situation. I'm thinking of playing with a DS Machine stove next year. Should I continue to see poor quality / workmanship, I'll buy another HITZER 50-93. The HITZER quality, and performance is Great!! Just thought I'd play with a new toy in the shop.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: KingCoal On: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:26 am

OP, my experience with the new DSM1400 is not like that.

i have no problems or issues of workmanship at all.

results may vary of course.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Locke Warm Morning #120 special project
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

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Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:37 am

KingCoal wrote:OP, my experience with the new DSM1400 is not like that.
i have no problems or issues of workmanship at all.

Maybe mine was assembled on a Friday afternoon just before quitting time. :(
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:45 pm

I'm On Fire wrote:
rberq wrote:Are the door frames cast iron, or are they steel?

I'm pretty sure the flange the door mounts to is cast. It's bolted to the 1/4" plate steel body.

Yes, when I called DS Machine, they said both the frame and the door are cast.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:58 pm

I have an older Basement #4 ...
No Quality issues...
The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...
Moist Cape Cod Beach air is the issue...
Then some rust jacking...
Both issues of my location...
I did change over to hinge pins rather than the bolts that came with the stove...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:23 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...

Did you just replace them with identical screws? It looks like I could replace most of mine with bolts and nuts, but there is no access on the bottom ones to put a nut on, so they will require screws.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:28 pm

Hate to admit it but runnin' NG where the #4 is...
House gettin' remodeled and well the NG is just easier with the current situation...
I will drill out and use bolts...
I was going to leave heads inside stove nuts outside...
No time with the 3 little ones to get goin' on that project yet.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: kaboom On: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:32 am

rberq wrote:
CapeCoaler wrote:The steel screws that hold the cast frame to the steel body finally rotted...

Did you just replace them with identical screws? It looks like I could replace most of mine with bolts and nuts, but there is no access on the bottom ones to put a nut on, so they will require screws.


I was able to replace all the door screws on my stove after removing some fire brick. CapeCoaler had suggested putting the nuts on the outside, which sounded like a good idea. Because I already had cad. plated 1/4 - 28 Gr.8 screws, that is what I used.

Before you drill, check the location of the interior angle iron that supports the fire brick. One screw head, on the lower right I think needed to be ground down a little in order to clear.
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kaboom
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine DS2100WH
Coal Size/Type: nut/Anthracite
Other Heating: FHA/ LPG

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:29 pm

More complaints -- this I would call a design defect in the 1300 circulator. The bottom of the hopper is several inches inward from the sides and front of the firebox. Coal flows down and out of the hopper in a natural sloped pile until it rests against the firebricks. The elevation of the hopper opening is such that the coal doesn’t quite reach the top of the firebricks.

However, at the back the hopper is very close to the back of the stove and firebox. The natural slope of the pile puts the coal above the top of the firebricks, and in direct contact with the steel bracket holding the bricks. You can see the result in these pictures – the bracket is burning out after only two and a half seasons of use. First picture is looking down into the hopper from the top. Second picture is looking in through the load door.

I'm guessing this is not a problem with the larger stoves -- 1400, 1500, 1600 -- where the back of the firebox is not flush with the back of the hopper???

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rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:59 pm

i'm sorry to see this, that is indeed a sad flaw.

if you cut another slot in the top of the present back wall of the hopper for the top load door latch rod to pass thru could you reverse the hopper and move the discharge out toward the front ? or would you simply have the same problem in a new location ?

i can see how it would be possible to cut the "L" bracket and weld in a new center piece to address that but short of the first idea a fix for the hopper would involve cutting wedges out of the sides of the hopper and welding the back wall back on to narrow the lower opening enough to have the coal drop past this problem spot. or fashion a new hopper to avoid this.

there is about 4" min. between the back of the hopper and the brick retaining bracket on the 1400. i'm sure the space is atleast that big on the others too.

i would have to say that in view of this i, myself, would have to send the pic's to DSM and encourage them to remedy the problem, it is an obvious and unacceptable design flaw that should have been visible and resolved in production.

best of luck,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Locke Warm Morning #120 special project
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:49 am

KingCoal wrote:could you reverse the hopper and move the discharge out toward the front ? or would you simply have the same problem in a new location ?

As I recall, the hopper won’t fit in the other way. And yes, it might very well just move the problem to the front.

KingCoal wrote:a fix for the hopper

I thought of putting a diverter plate inside the back of the hopper, at the bottom, to narrow the opening and force the coal forward. But even now nut coal will sometimes bind up at the bottom of the hopper – making it narrower could be a problem. Next idea is bolting a straight extension on the bottom back of the hopper to lower the height of the coal pile that flows out.

KingCoal wrote: there is about 4" min. between the back of the hopper and the brick retaining bracket on the 1400. i'm sure the space is at least that big on the others too.

Yes, I think they built the 1300 by chopping off about 4 ½ inches of depth (one set of convection pipes) off the back of the 1400.

KingCoal wrote:send the pic's to DSM and encourage them to remedy the problem

That’s my plan, call them first and see what they have to say, and go from there. It would be easier to send pictures if they had email – gosh, they installed electricity and telephones, what’s one little step further down the slippery slope? :P
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:41 pm

what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.

given the relationship of the hopper depth relative to the brick rail it might be just enough.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Locke Warm Morning #120 special project
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:51 pm

KingCoal wrote:what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.

Yes, I think that would work. I don't know that it even needs to be at an angle, as long as it lowers the top edge of the sloping pile of coal.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: DS Machine Quality Control

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:56 pm

rberq wrote:
KingCoal wrote:what if you add a piece of plate stock a couple inches wide at a forward angle across the width of the back lower edge of the hopper so that it forces the coal toward the front as it exits the hopper.

Yes, I think that would work. I don't know that it even needs to be at an angle, as long as it lowers the top edge of the sloping pile of coal.


i couldn't tell for sure from the pic, just seemed to look like even straight down you would need to make the "tail piece" even longer to get coal fully past the brick rail.

i'm sure you can work it out.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Locke Warm Morning #120 special project
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Visit Hitzer Stoves