The coming cashless society

Forum rules
As the title "Thoughtful and Intelligent Debates" implies we want quality discussion in this forum. If you're going to post a new topic or reply to one here please make sure it fits the following guidelines.

  • Clear and descriptive title for your topic.
  • You don't need to write a book but please have a reasonable amount of material to support or dispute what you are discussing.
  • Outside references to material to support or dispute your argument can be used but they should not wholly make up your argument. If for example you reference a news article please explain exactly what you are referencing and why.
  • Stay on topic, while topics will wander in the general forums we want to keep them strictly on topic in this forum. Flaming will not be tolerated at all.

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:42 pm

Good points Freddy. Follow the money!
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Freddy wrote:I don't think it's the government that's pushing the cashless idea....although if it occurs they might take advantage of the situation. I believe it's the banks that are pushing it. They make a huge profit from debit cards, even more so than credit cards. They make up for it in credit cards from people that pay interest & late payments. It varies by business, but the banks either get a flat fee or a percentage when a debit card is used. I believe the percentage runs 1.5 to 4 percent, but let's guess an average of 2%. Let's have fun with math..... Let's say the average person makes $10 an hour and works 40 hours a week. That's $57 a day....this is just rough math, so go with me.... 300 million people in the USA... let's say only half are earning or spend their money....that's about 8 1/2 billion dollars a day spent.... 2% of that's 170 million dollars EACH DAY that the banks take in. I'm betting the numbers are much higher, but, come on, 170 million profit a day....for doing what? Of course they want a cashless society! I know around here businesses appreciate it when you pay cash. Some places will only accept credit cards up to $500, over that they want to see a check. If you put a $3,000 TV on a debit card, the bank just made $60... I think the feds should step in and mandate that no debit transaction can have more than a $10 bank fee. Just think how much cheaper everything could be if we went to an all cash society! They mention less theft with cashless...then in the fine print at the end of the story they mention cyber crime is up like you wouldn't believe.


Of course you are correct in these points as well. It is a collusion between the large banks and the government. The relationship between the two cannot be denied by anyone who pays attention to what is happening on not just a national scale but globally as well. Taxes and fees automatically collected, spending habits analyzed, movements tracked and so on. The overall point is that it is being implemented bit by bit whether we like it or not.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:57 am

Freddy wrote: It varies by business, but the banks either get a flat fee or a percentage when a debit card is used. I believe the percentage runs 1.5 to 4 percent, but let's guess an average of 2%.


I'd have to agree Freddy, it's the banks that would love to see this because they can charge you every time you make a transaction. When the percentage is lower like that there is usually per transaction fees of a dollar+/-, these new "cube" devices you see advertised for phones are doing like 2.75% as the only fee. For a small business where the transactions are small that is better. For example my buddy owns a hardware store and he has just about every nut or bolt you could ever need, he'll sell them individually and it might only be 50 cent sale, he can't make that sale with a credit card if there is $1 transaction fee. He'd save money giving it to them.. and yes he gets people that want to make purchases that small with a CC.

The problem is the consumer never sees these fees but they are paying them anyway. They are included in the cost of the product. If it were me these fees would be tacked onto the invoices for any sales that were not cash, every retailer needs to do that.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite


Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I just got back a $175 check from my cash rewards credit card. I was wondering where that could have been possible. Probably from me overpaying in the first place :D
Like I bought four pepsis, paid for six, and they give me one back and tell me it's free :D
Dann757
 

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:18 pm

The cash back is an enticement to use the card so they can charge those fees. Part of the financial regualtions passed under the Democrats limited those fees, I actually thought it was good legislation and they almost had it right. What they got wrong was exempting credit unions. What they really should of done was eliminated the fees to merchants across the board. If the banks want to charge fees for transactions they can simply move them to the consumer where they belong. :) Of course if the consumer is paying it then it's no longer hidden in the cost of the product.

There is another point to this as well, if you're paying cash since most retailers are charging one price for cash or a CC you are in fact paying for these fees too.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:42 pm

There is something odd about the price trend in hidden credit card fees, debit card fees, ATM fees, etc... What is odd is that years ago when the systems of distributing these services were much smaller and less efficient than they are now the fees were actually much lower than they are today. In a free and capitalistic society the economies of scale combined with the incentive of competition are strong driving forces that should be ever lowering to even eliminating such fees, but in our mixed corprotocracy society of today such fees are going up at the very time while the scale of their use and the speed and efficiency of the computers and systems providing these convenience services is exponentially increasing, and thereby the actual costs associated with providing these services is plunging downward. This inversion in cost to the middlemen (the stores) and end users (you and I) can only happen with full government assistance and backing (or back turning), plus with well orchestrated cartel like collusion between the banks and other providers. It can not happen in a truly free market.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:34 pm

They would tell you fraud and cyber crime are rising and offsetting any savings in efficiency. Plus the added cost of tracking all the info, virtual servers to store the info, etc.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:35 pm

Phone payments are your future : https://squareup.com/wallet

It covers all the bases, gps location, habits, personal information etc., might as well have that mark in your forehead or right hand.

A cursory look at how the smart phones were propagated/incentivized and adopted willingly all point to an engineered understanding of the human psyche.

You don't have to stray very far in your choice of news programming to find that the ability to apply all of your social media data to an algorithm and generate actionable results exists. Heck they openly boast about being able to shut down your twitter access if you find yourself in an area under a police action. They can use a mobil cell tower spoof that funnels ALL your data/voice, you would be non the wiser, your phone just thinks it a legit node/access point.

The later actually reveals the possibility for nefarious theft of your IMAGINARY DIGITAL CREDITS, a real man would have to risk life stealing your purse/wallet, not so much now.

Like you, I enjoy technology, it just has to be continually weighed, cost/benefit.

What are you willing to give up for a little perceived convenience....
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:59 pm

After being wed to a woman who was really into the cash-less money thing (she was a liberal too...shutter...shutter again...then shutter even more and wonder why did I ever marry her), I finally married a sensible conservative and went to Cash Only a year or so ago. I love it.

I get Cash Back Rewards with cash that would make a credit card company keel over and die with a heart attack with what I get for a weekly return...

What I do is, take any and all $5 dollar bills and stick them in a jar. When I need something to remodel the house, which is what me and the wife decided we wanted to do with a little extra money, I look through the jar and see what I have for $5 dollar bills. In the average week, I save out about $45-$50 in $5 dollar bills. The thing is, I never miss them, and I never seem to need them, so for me and my wife, it is a great way to save a little money. Try it,,,it really is a simple, smart idea.

As for those $34 dollar over-draft fees...a thing of the past, and even though for some bills I must use a $1.15 money order from the post office, I can sure buy a lot of them for what ONE over-draft fee was!
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:12 pm

NoSmoke wrote:I get Cash Back Rewards with cash that would make a credit card company keel over and die with a heart attack with what I get for a weekly return...


"Cash back rewards" work for some retailers when paying cash, just mention you'll be paying with Jackson, Grant or Franklin before asking the price.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:17 pm

Boy you got that right! After you start paying for everything in cash, people sort of realize it and come to expect it. I am a farmer so some days I drop a lot of cash and it is appreciated by suppliers!

Here is the thing though, when I took over the farm in 2008, I told myself I was not going to farm like my Father and Grandfather did; I was going to be legitimate, and I have. I report everything and am honest in my farming dealings (I am a Christian so this is a moral issue as well). I just add this because I don't want people thinking I do cash-only so I can hide under the radar. I just like cash-only and it works well for me!
NoSmoke
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vogelzang Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:48 am

Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:47 pm

Went to total cash years ago. I don't even have an ATM card. My wife has a prepaid Visa if we "need" a card for some reason.

And I took out about half my 401k when I got laid off and paid off the last of my debt. That was about a year and a half ago and I'm glad I did.

No need/want for a chip here.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:59 pm

Fighting unconstitutional stingray phone surveillance that tracks innocent people

http://blogs.computerworld.com/privacy/ ... 2012-10-24
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: The coming cashless society

PostBy: mason coal burner On: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:29 pm

No one has mentioned fractional reserve banking . The banks multiply every dollar that you deposit by at least ten then loan it out . Think of the money they could make if you had to have all your money in the bank . It's also all about control . They can decide when and what you can buy . It's the final nail in the coffin . Mark of the beast . It's a test from the devil . Literally . I'm with you William me and my family will die first . Read the book of revelations .
mason coal burner
 
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer/glenwood
Stove/Furnace Model: 82/111