Third Debate

Dann757 wrote:

Dann757 wrote:Name one government control that restricts me in any way from doing business as a sole proprietor of my handyman service.

Answer the question. Not with another question.

I needed more information to give you an answer.

Maybe you barter for everything you do and therefore use no Federal Reserve Notes as a means of exchange which would also mean you don't pay income tax.

But if you use what the government laughingly calls "money", then I'll assume you pay income tax, and/or with self employment tax. Plus probably an incorporation fee to the state and several other things.

Are those taxes a restriction on your business?

Does that fact that you use government mandated, over valued currency place a restriction on your business?

You tell me. I certainly don't know your business better than you.

If you didn't have to pay the government for the right to go out an work every day, I bet you could hire a helper to expand your business. Does having to pay that helper a minimum amount place a restriction on your business? How about all the associated taxes that are required to employ him? Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment, Workers Comp? Do any of those things restrict you at all?

You tell me. Are you free to run your business as you see fit or are you free to follow any number of government guidelines or risk being in violation of several laws?

What a negative nelly you are.

Dann757 wrote:What a negative nelly you are.

Maybe you'd like to answer the question?

Or is this a one way street where you get to demand I answer your questions but you don't feel an obligation to do the same?

jpete wrote:I needed more information to give you an answer.

Oh, you couldn't answer the question.

jpete wrote:Maybe you barter for everything you do and therefore use no Federal Reserve Notes as a means of exchange which would also mean you don't pay income tax.

Nope. I sell my labor for money.

jpete wrote:But if you use what the government laughingly calls "money", then I'll assume you pay income tax, and/or with self employment tax. Plus probably an incorporation fee to the state and several other things.

I give my *censored* to the accountant. I'm not incorporated.

jpete wrote:Are those taxes a restriction on your business?

Nope. My accountant is a genius, literally.

jpete wrote:Does that fact that you use government mandated, over valued currency place a restriction on your business?

No. I told you, I trade my labor for money. If a loaf of bread costs more, then I raise my prices like everybody else on earth.

jpete wrote:If you didn't have to pay the government for the right to go out an work every day, I bet you could hire a helper to expand your business. Does having to pay that helper a minimum amount place a restriction on your business? How about all the associated taxes that are required to employ him? Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment, Workers Comp? Do any of those things restrict you at all?

I've been a sole proprietor for many years. When it gets to the bigger time, Obama is crushing business. Obamacare has everybody holding back. A friend knows somebody that owns a few KFC's; the guy said he will sell them if Obamacare stands.

There's always been taxes and methods of exchange back to biblical times. I don't consider paying taxes " paying the government for the right to work."

If you feel there's a right to work then you're a commie. If you appreciate the right to pursue happiness, then you're an American.

What do you think, you're gonna get some kind of Garden of Eden world? People do the best they can and they'll do better when Obama gets voted out.

I guess I can't expect you to answer the question.

Dann757 wrote:

jpete wrote:If you feel there's a right to work then you're a commie. If you appreciate the right to pursue happiness, then you're an American.

As I see it, all of jpetes arguments have been oriented at a right to own run a business free of government extortion for the privilege. Not a right to work at some arbitrary job within a business just because it is somehow owed to everyone as a "right" to be employed. The argument he makes is one that turns upon the difference between a right and a privilege. Do you have a right to run a business if you choose to do so and have the means and resources whereby to accomplish the task without the need to ask for any government handouts or assistance or permits (I,E, can you build, operate, and sustain a business strictly on your own), or is it merely a privilege for you to own a business whereby the government grants said privilege and then demands various forms of homage (permits, taxation, the hiring of employees by government set rules, the need to offer them health care, to pay 50% of their social security and give them sufficient wages so they can pay the remaining 50% (this really means that you are paying 100% of it) , to maintain compliance with 100,000 or more pages of Federal Register listed rules and laws, etc...) to be owed to it forever in return?

To call jpete's position here communistic in outlook is to seriously miss and thereby invert and trivialize his entire intent in arguing his position.

Dann757 wrote:If you feel there's a right to work then you're a commie. If you appreciate the right to pursue happiness, then you're an American.
.

You think being free to use your labor in any capacity to provide for the survival of yourself and your family is being a "commie"?

WOW!

If that's your mindset, then I can't argue with you. You're way off the reservation.

Oh gee, once again we come upon that " interpretation thing" Somebody had a song out that the one line I liked was--"there ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys--there's only you & me & we just disagree" LIGHTEN UP ON THAT RESERVATION STUFF

lsayre wrote:To call jpete's position here communistic in outlook is to seriously miss and thereby invert and trivialize his entire intent in arguing his position.

Who are you? His attorney?

Like I said, render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars. You guys think you're in some kind of dream world where you can just whine and somehow you will get a perfect society where everything is paid for by some magic fairy.

I answered his questions and still get the Ron Paul attitude. The guy thinks he's Ron Paul; fine, get an ill fitting suit and a pair of too big sneakers and alienate 99% of the population I don't care.

I am no proponent of big government or big government expansion and further intrusion. However, when I go to renew my driver's license or pay my taxes, I don't carry a protest sign with me; I play the game and continue to go about keeping a roof over my head and bread in the cupboard.

If 20 Ron Paul fans were on a desert island, eventually an alpha male would appear and a little society would ensue. They would have to forget about uncle Ron and go about gathering coconuts and building lean-to's.

Members of a civilized society need to contribute to it. I don't like people that take every opportunity to bash the USA. Try socialist France, starving Russia, or any African country that can't even muster the wherewithall to support themselves.

Seems to me that there is a group out there that wants all the rights or privileges or freedoms that we have enjoyed all of our lives because of the blood & sweat of those before us but don't want to contribute a damn thing towards it. Nobody like taxes or too much Gov. but the reasons we have them is because so many are dishonorable. Those outside Gov. have created the need for rules & regs. because of being dishonorable & those in Gov. have unfortunately become just as dishonorable but we are the ones that put them there.

samhill wrote:Seems to me that there is a group out there that wants all the rights or privileges or freedoms that we have enjoyed all of our lives because of the blood & sweat of those before us but don't want to contribute a damn thing towards it. Nobody like taxes or too much Gov. but the reasons we have them is because so many are dishonorable. Those outside Gov. have created the need for rules & regs. because of being dishonorable & those in Gov. have unfortunately become just as dishonorable but we are the ones that put them there.

I would rather that we all work together to restore all of the rights you have lost within your lifetime, perhaps without even realizing it. But perhaps this is futile. Rights or privileges, which do you prefer?

If you don't know what's gone then I guess there isn't much to discuss now is there? We can still speak our minds & are free to go anywhere that will allow us, personally I don't expect a free lunch.

Dann757 wrote:Members of a civilized society need to contribute to it. I don't like people that take every opportunity to bash the USA. Try socialist France, starving Russia, or any African country that can't even muster the wherewithall to support themselves.

So before 1913, we didn't have a "civilized society"?

Because that when we started paying income tax.

Why do you think the government has a higher claim to your labor than you do?

jpete wrote:Why do you think the government has a higher claim to your labor than you do?

Hey Jpete, I would love it if there was no income tax. Maybe I'm not too far off in disagreement with you.
I don't think the govt. has a higher claim to my labor that I do, what gave you that idea?
I think it's the damn liberals, democrats, and commies that have made govt. grow too big. Can't stand Obama and his nanny state ideology.
Hate the UN, a bunch of third world corrupt thugs and idiots with their hands out.

What the heck can I do about it? I write these pig senators and get back form emails full of lies.


I would love to see smaller govt. that doesn't exist to rediustribute the wealth of hard working productive people to deadbeats.
But I'm also willing to contribute fairly to the govt. if it would only be responsible and frugal.

No question Romney is the better choice.

You negate your own argument.

Romney already said he wants to increase military spending and he's sabre rattling toward Iran.

All that costs money. Get your wallet out.

A stronger military will keep us OUT of situations like Iran & that whole sand box region-- if I have to explain that to anyone, you won't understand anyway. Nice post Dann