Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: elleninpa On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:57 pm

steve, rayjay jeff, and wsherrick, this is very helpful!
I guess we should go with the round stove and not a cookstove, mostly because we need longer than 8 hour burns...so that answers that question...
I still don't know why they are called OAKs, because the ornamentation is oak leaves and acorns?
Also, I wonder about the Harman SF, i get different pictures when I do google images...the newer ones are much more industrial looking and the older ones nicer looking to my eye...my dh was sort of surprised that they stoves were so masculine looking too
elleninpa
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac but looking
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac but looking

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:00 pm

whistlenut wrote:I've had several Surdiacs, Efels, Franco's, a SF 260 Harman (120K). It is the most forgiving stove I've ever owned. It may not be as ornamental as others, but it just plain operates very well.
If you've played with a Surdiac all theses years, I should congratulate you. I never disliked any stove more than these very popular rigs.
If you want to simplify your heating life you can go with a fine stoker stove from CoalJack, Leisure Line, Keystoker, Alaska or Hitzer. Harman has a great stoker, but the sticker shock will probably cause you to 'stroke out'.
I get the heating with no power deal, but you have no refrigeration, lights, etc. I know the boys down east love those beautiful stoves AND they are eye candy while being extremely functional.......
but the 'museum quality' pieces are not for me.
If you don't want a new stove , but a newer stove, the doors are wide open........more of a lifestyle decision for you......

Ask away, folks will give their opinion. :idea:


Sure you can have lights and refrigeration without electricity. The next thing, after this extended power outage is a Kerosene refrigerator for emergency use. Why go for a newer stove that is not nearly as efficient or as easy to use as the, "museum pieces," you mention.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:02 pm

with the sf 250 i could get a 20 hr burn on that stove, and it burned like a dream and used 250 or mk III are out there

Jeff
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

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Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:07 pm

The SF Harman does look like "Take No Prisoners" stove, definitely not feminine in any way. It is like a 325 pound steelworker...nothing dainty about it. It will easily last 24 hours between 'feedings'.

I see we are having a 'yellow snow contest' building with the down east boys.......let's not freak anyone out. You have an excellent stove. and you are happy with it. It is very efficient, but the choice is yours alone.
If this young lady wants to go that route, fine, but don't blow a gasket on the way to decision day.

You may love to drive a 1909 Cadillac and that is fine, BUT they just don't have that many of them around to choose from. I LOVE to look at your stove and I am in awe at the efficiency (and heat)they produce.
You have my respect, but I don't share your logic. I live in an 1890 High Posted Cape...I love it, but would never build a new one.
Last edited by whistlenut on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:09 pm

elleninpa wrote:I read one bad review on Harman, and then had a friend not like theirs, tell me please are there models of Harman to avoid?


The one thing you have to watch with bad reviews is people rarely post good reviews.

If you saw it here I would first look at how long the member has been around and their history, if they just showed up to say "this thing sucks" take it for what it's worth. Same thing if it's one shot deal elsewhere.

I don't own any Harman products but my understanding is everything they make is outstanding.

elleninpa wrote:my dh was sort of surprised that they stoves were so masculine looking too


I personally like the look of that and I'd imagine most males would. :)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: elleninpa On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:10 pm

hey whistlenut, I love the opinions given and love yours too! we aren't survivalists but we do live within 3 hours (one tank of gas in a car) from three major cities so if needed, we need to be ready...to help or to hide! We've got solar lighting and are working on a solar freezer, and a dry/canned goods pantry...we just like knowing how to do things...I think they call us 'urban farmers' now :)

DH is not going to get a stoker, heard too much about them and not good stuff from friends that tried them...it does tie us to the house but we have pets and older parents that do that too so oh well, vacations away are for warmer weather times..

so right too about learning to use what we have, that surdiac! even the kids can work it now, and we have students stay with us sometimes, they learn in quick order how to properly do a shake and poke down, or they freeze! we debated for years on whether to put a barometric damper on it, but have had one now for three years and it makes a difference on those 40F days, no more fears of temperature and CO inversions, we do like our pets and want them to be alive when we come in from work

and we all know, never eat yellow snow! I get that about bad reviews too, take them with many grains of salt, all the advice here is wonderful(ly fun, too).

now here's another Question! do you oil the top of your cast iron stoves against liquids spilling and rusting it when cooking on it like we all do with our cast iron cookware? This is a question we have too about steel cased stoves, how does one keep the top in good condition when cooking on it?

and good to hear that Harman is an excellent choice, we'd have to go out of town to the nearest dealer but it may be worth the trip, especially if we are talking about 20 hour burns!

oh another edit! how young is young? :lol:
elleninpa
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac but looking
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac but looking

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:40 pm

You are on the right path IMO, and if you have kids running the Surdiac, I am even more impressed.
Whomever told you guys that stokers are troublesome must not know anything about stokers!!!!!! Auto feeding and temp regulation are wonderful with a stoker. Please ask the nay-sayers to do some REAL research.
Your solar interest is commendable also. Urban farmers.....I like that name. Please tell me you still don't have a Barry and Joe sticker from 08'.......... :roll: :lol: :lol: :shock:

You should go find a Hitzer showroom....or better yet, invite Freetown Fred to come down on his next trip off the mountain. He knows the Hitzer story, Van Wert Guys, and EFM soldiers.

I acknowledge the yellow snow knowledge level.......PH D answer. Some say 'Why Not????????? You can't change stupid.........
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: SteveZee On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:51 pm

He stated that he's gotten 20 hr burns out of the SF250 and that's certainly true but that is not the norm under dead of winter conditions.
As I mentioned to you I tend my Glenwood every 12hrs out of routine but it will burn much longer as well. Right now it this weather, I could tend it once a day or 24 hr burns but I'm not going to tell you that in the dead of winter, you can expect 24 burns. When the stove is working at optimum temps in the 500 or more range , you would need to tend it at 12 hr intervals. I'm sure the box stove guys will tell you the same. Most good large capacity hand feds at "normal" (not idling, not flat out) firing rates are tended twice a day. How much coal you burn (for the heat you get into your home) and how effiecent the stove is, is more a product of the design and for burning coal, round is better than square.

If it were easy to make a modern stove in this shape it would be happening but unfortunately, the lack of foundry's make this cost prohibitive today and it's much easier to weld steel plate into a square'ish shape. I'm not saying these are bad stoves at all. Many of them work just fine as evidenced by their many happy users. But a round, tall stove, takes up less space and burns coal and dissipates heat a bit more effectively. In all honestly it's more a matter of what is pleasing to you and what you like. That said, there is a reason that these round stoves are still around after 100+yrs of use and it's not just because they are pleasing to look at. ;)
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

As SZ said, the norm is 12 hrs--just a good habit to get into in the dead of winter--my Hitzer will undoubtly go for 36 hrs in this kind of weather--but I shake & top off at 24--using about 20 lb of Nut in this kind of weather--go through 40 lb in the cold stuff--heating 2000 sq 250 yr old farm house-- take your time & choose wisely--it's a decision you won't regret as you well know.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: elleninpa On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:01 pm

so a new stove, box shape, is about $2K and one of the antique, round shape, is about $2500 - $3K, which means....about five to seven years it would take to get the efficiency pay off (box at 70-80% and round at 90% delta approxmately 15-20%). We'll be alive, god willing, another thirty or so, so it would be a wise investment...to go round...we have a plate steel woodburner already, and I am fond of cast iron, however....Hitzer and Harmon...hmmm...

we did just spend $2500 for five new windows on the northern windy side of the house, that should help with retaining more of our heat, it was amazing with the recent Noreaster Sandy that we couldn't hear the wind or see the curtains moving...that's saying something for sure! no more living in a barn with the doors and windows wide open

"You should go find a Hitzer showroom....or better yet, invite Freetown Fred to come down on his next trip off the mountain. He knows the Hitzer story, Van Wert Guys, and EFM soldiers." - I think I didn't follow this! do I need to start googling?
Last edited by elleninpa on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
elleninpa
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac but looking
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac but looking

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:03 pm

whistlenut wrote:The SF Harman does look like "Take No Prisoners" stove, definitely not feminine in any way. It is like a 325 pound steelworker...nothing dainty about it. It will easily last 24 hours between 'feedings'.

I see we are having a 'yellow snow contest' building with the down east boys.......let's not freak anyone out. You have an excellent stove. and you are happy with it. It is very efficient, but the choice is yours alone.
If this young lady wants to go that route, fine, but don't blow a gasket on the way to decision day.

You may love to drive a 1909 Cadillac and that is fine, BUT they just don't have that many of them around to choose from. I LOVE to look at your stove and I am in awe at the efficiency (and heat)they produce.
You have my respect, but I don't share your logic. I live in an 1890 High Posted Cape...I love it, but would never build a new one.


Oh, I'm not angry. When someone asks you about what stoker model they should look at, I don't jump on the stoker forum and start suggesting which hand fed to buy. I would never have a stoker, to me it defeats one of the main reasons to heat with coal, which is independence of an outside source. So, I don't understand the logic behind them, but; if someone wants one I won't try to convince them otherwise. Maybe I'm just a little too sensitive, but; the antique remarks, etc, smack of a little bit of condescension. I hope I'm wrong there. The person here asked about, handfed stoves, so I am responding to that.
Thank you for your compliments and I appreciate it.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: elleninpa On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:07 pm

wrsherrick, was i correct in my calculations about the efficiency of a round? and I thought I saw a round stove being made currently, I'll have to look again at my search history,...

now dh of mine had some questions, what about availability of replacement parts? for instance, if we went with mica glass, would we want some extras on hand in case or is it a day or two to get a replacement? i saw that there are a few rehabbers out there that work on old stoves, so I guess they would make house calls? or is the real answer, they are 100 years old because if cared for, they just don't break?

Okay I googled, really? Evangelicals for Mitt or Electrostatic Freon Microscope? Van Wert, Ohio or men's clothing line? sheesh! nutters all of us!
Last edited by elleninpa on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
elleninpa
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac but looking
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac but looking

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: echos67 On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 pm

Wow Steve,
Even though I have seen those pictures they never get old, Great looking pair of Glenwoods you have there :shock: wish I had your chimney set ups :D .

Ellen,
Another Glenwood user here, I was able to heat my entire 2500 sq ft house last year on 2 tons of coal, now last year was warmer than usual but I did it with my Glenwood in the basement :D !
When I got my stove I did a quick seal it up and light it off for heat, this year it is not in use but instead it is about 3/4 finished with the full restoration. Once done it will be used on the first floor here since my unfinished basement is no place to keep such a girl with this much class !!
Last year was my first year heating with coal and everyone here was a great help, not that I am a pro in any way but the base heaters are pretty easy and forgiving when it comes to coal. They put out some serious heat and no electric needed :lol: .
Good luck in your stove purchase !
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:12 pm

Oh Wm. don't get all huffy about your antique stoves. :clap: toothy Ellen, I picked up my 50-93 on CL for &750.00 4 yrs ago in as good a shape as when new. You've got a lot of choices to play with. 30 more yrs huh? All the stoves mentioned are top notch & will last all of those 30 & probably do the kids real well as wel as thier kids ;) .
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Which handfired coal to get with my inheritance?

PostBy: david78 On: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:14 pm

If you're a DIY type, you don't have to buy the $2-$3K already restored antique; if you decide antique is what you like. Find a "needs TLC" bargain and restore it yourself. A number of members here have done it. It's not that complicated. I found it to be an enjoyable learning experience and ended up with a stove I'm quite satisfied with at about a tenth the cost of a professionally restored stove.
david78
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Fuller & Warren Splendid Oak 27
Coal Size/Type: Nut

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