50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:59 am

Got the stove in basement earlier this week, re-assembled, and new gasket on hopper door. Been running for past 2.5 days, 12+ hour tending times. Slowly getting the stone walls warmed up in basement; need to cut in some vents here and there, right now just leaving the basement door open and getting a fair bit of airflow from that.

BUT...

Stack temps (magnetic, surface thermometer) anywhere from 150-180 (at reloading time) to 300 (full load, thermo damper calling for heat). These seem way low as a reformed wood burner but I see from reading here that they're probably higher than needed.

Basement stove, about 28' chimney (from the thimble to the top). Haven't put a manometer on it.

Do I need a baro or manual damper? Vermont Castings Defiant woodstove that has a very similar intake air arrangement, had in a different house, didn't use any kind of pipe damper, so I question the need a little, but if it would decrease stack temps would be worthwhile.

Second question: can you put a baro on the end of a tee that replaces an elbow on the vertical to horizontal transition? Or is that a dead-air spot? Seems it would be a real handy way to get at the pipe to clean it, if it would work.

Thanks much, I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions to come.

Jacob
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:03 pm

Barometric dampers can not be used safely with wood burning stoves. In the event of a chimney fire (due to creosote) the damper would open wide and fan the flames tremendously. There is no creosote in coal.

Your stack temps do not seem out of line to me.

I believe you can position a baro damper at the end of a Tee as you are describing it. Can't see why not. One guy here installed one directly into the top/back side of his stove. By comparison that solution is far more radical.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Jacob, I use an MPD--fastcat tried a baro on his 50-93 but removed it I believe. If you go with the baro--yes the T is good--your temps are good for now--what is your back dial set on--do you have ash door vents open at all??? I've been waiting for my stone basement walls to get nice & toasty--for 4 seasons--of course my stove is upstairs ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

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Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:16 pm

Ash door vents closed except when starting up or shaking ashes down.

Back dial set at 10 to 12, but need to verify correct chain length (22-24 balls?) as I removed the flapper and box before the stove's trip downstairs (in order to avoid damage to said devices!)

Don't know what stove surface temp is, that would probably be useful to know. Where have you folks put a thermometer on the stove surface? Can't lay it on top, it's double with air space. Upper part of one of the sides maybe?

Ha yep it might take a wee while for a 1st floor stove to warm-up the basement walls. Better half didn't want little kids horsing around near the stove upstairs. Hope that doesn't come back to bite us in January. Guess with better air circulation we'll be able to get more heat upstairs. I see there's plenty of great ideas on here for accomplishing that.
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:29 pm

A manual pipe damper would probably be a good improvement.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 pm

With the thermostat to control air intake you probably do not need anything else.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:15 pm

22---24 is correct. Yes floor vents will make much difference. If you talk to old school burners like franco b & myself--the MPD IS optional--being an old wood burner myself, I put mine in just out of habit. It's gotta keep any heat from going up the chimney more or less--I can't prove or disprove that one ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: fastcat On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:13 am

Do yourself a favor and forget the baro use a MPD, if you have a good draft all your going to do is suck the heat out of the basement with the baro before it can get upstairs. If you talk to Hitzer they will tell you that you don't need a damper at all but the mpd works for Fred and myself. I have my thermometer on the front of the stove in the upper right hand corner. I would think at 180* stack you are near 450 to 500 on the stove and if this is so yes you need to get more circulation going on, how far away from the steps is the stove I think from the last time you posted it isn't close. If your clever you can make a collector off the front of your stove into 8 or 12 inch pipe and send it straight upstairs through a great, or block off the front and cut a 8 to 12" hole in the top of the stove weld on a flange fit a pipe and send the heat up using the fan on the rear of the stove. Keep us informed on how you are making out and yes add the second thermometer so you don't overfire the stove and add a manometer so you know your draft situation. How about CO Detectors one near the stove one in your living area and one near your bedrooms, this is a must with coal or wood but moreso with coal. It might take a few weeks but you will get it figured out and like the rest of us wonder why we ever burned wood. :D

Ps add a reastat to the fan on the stove and slow the fan way down, with the fan on full tilt you are cooling the stove and the hot air coming off of it.
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:01 am

fastcat wrote:Do yourself a favor and forget the baro use a MPD, if you have a good draft all your going to do is suck the heat out of the basement with the baro before it can get upstairs. If you talk to Hitzer they will tell you that you don't need a damper at all but the mpd works for Fred and myself. I have my thermometer on the front of the stove in the upper right hand corner. I would think at 180* stack you are near 450 to 500 on the stove and if this is so yes you need to get more circulation going on, how far away from the steps is the stove I think from the last time you posted it isn't close. If your clever you can make a collector off the front of your stove into 8 or 12 inch pipe and send it straight upstairs through a great, or block off the front and cut a 8 to 12" hole in the top of the stove weld on a flange fit a pipe and send the heat up using the fan on the rear of the stove. Keep us informed on how you are making out and yes add the second thermometer so you don't overfire the stove and add a manometer so you know your draft situation. How about CO Detectors one near the stove one in your living area and one near your bedrooms, this is a must with coal or wood but moreso with coal. It might take a few weeks but you will get it figured out and like the rest of us wonder why we ever burned wood. :D

Ps add a reastat to the fan on the stove and slow the fan way down, with the fan on full tilt you are cooling the stove and the hot air coming off of it.
I'd be carefull of cutting a hole in the top of the heat exchanger, as the heat exchanger is finned. You wouldn't want to dammage finns.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:31 am

Yep, reastat is pretty simplistic--mine is a "Dial-a-Temp" It plugs into the wall & stove blower plugs into it. Don't know if they still make these--somebody probably found out they were simplistic, inexpensive & they work--can't have that in this day & age ;)
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freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:19 pm

Silent huh??? :D
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:24 pm

CO detector upstairs by bedrooms has been in place since move-in day last winter. Moved that one downstairs this fall and added one with a 'peak/hold' and number output upstairs. Didn't know if one by the stove itself would be much use; false alarms when loading? resistance to triggering by fly ash? The emptying of the ash pan can be a bit messy thus far as the 'ash can' is not wide enough to fit the open side of the ash pan :oops: What are some of you guys using to put ashes in?

I had thought of using a duct boot or something similar to collect the warm air from the blower outlet--saw a great post on here somewhere where someone used a couple of el-cheapo small C clamps to hold it in place, I think on a stoker of some sort. Do you think it would work better to send this warm air into the furnace plenum (with a anti-backflow damper of course) or up from its own grate? Or, third way, just a larger grate above the stove, with this air sent in that general direction but allowed to flow freely with the convected air from the sides? Will make this its own topic once I get going on it, so it'll be easier for searches to find (unless it should stay here--moderator?)

Yep, manometer would be useful, I see a specific Dwyer model on here that comes well recommended. Second magnetic thermometer was supposed to get purchased this afternoon but had to attend a calving instead. Oh well.

Fred when you say 22 to 24 balls, is that the 'free end' ie the 'tail' of the chain, past the thermostat's hook, or the length of the chain between thermo hook and damper flapper? I can't see how I can possibly get 22-24 between hook and flapper; unless I assembled something incorrectly, that number is far too short on my stove.

Thanks for the input, I think I'll see how stove and stack temps compare, and go on from there. Stove came with a baro and I think I have an MPD somewhere in the garage, so I can easily try both.

Jacob

PS ha not silent, just too slow at typing fred :lol:
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:33 pm

22 from tail. Jacob, there's many things you can play with on that stove--nothing ventured, nothing gained or learned--BUT, the basics are the same. Personally I would not, it's been mentioned by a couple people with this stove, use the baro.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: chester On: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:32 am

:rambo3: :rambo2: agcowvet,just my second year with my hitzer,heating 1500 sq ft upstairs and full basement. Like fred said ,just gotta experiment,last year the far end of my house would get down to 63-64 at night.Did a few thing this year-built second set of doors for my basement walk in,unhooked furnace exaust pipe that was tied in to my stove pipe and unhooked all the duct work so the heat radiates up to the second floor along with the basement door being open all the time and Viola! temps in the far end of the house are 70-75degrees,so dont give up ,just gotta keep trying different thing and go with what works for you !
chester
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut/stove
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: 50-93 ideal stack temp? damper needed?

PostBy: agcowvet On: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:00 am

Put in baro on horizontal part of flue last night. Using it as a substitute for a manometer, I had around .04-.05 WC draft. Set it at .06 WC. Would only be useful on the windier days, I know the draft is much stronger then. So I don't expect it to make much difference in coal consumption except on certain days. Certainly it isn't making much change in stack temp (why would it, when it's not doing anything :lol: ) Stack temps have been running 120 to 250, body temp (high on left side) running anywhere from 140 to 450, depending on state of fire.

I may try to put in a manual damper later, will need a trip to the store first, can't find the one I thought I had in garage. But the bigger issue is, I don't think this stove is big enough for the job...don't want to spend too much more on trying to make it work if it's not going to. Separate post to discuss that will be coming shortly.

Thanks for all your input.
Jacob

Added image on edit. Galv pipe following tee as that scrap piece fit perfectly, and didn't have to cut any black pipe :D
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Last edited by agcowvet on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

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