Davian wrote:I think we're arguing past each other or at least arguing different facets of this issue. I'm merely stating the legality of secession under current US Law while you're looking at it from a more humanist philosophical viewpoint (one shared by our Founders for what its worth). Secession was tried rather unsucessfully several times in our history and there have even been a couple of other rebellions based on a defiance of the Federal government (Whiskey Rebellion comes to mind as does Vermont's insurgency during the War of 1812). It was a debatable legal question all the way until Texas v. White in 1869 (IIRC, going off memory for the year there). It was threatened by the Federalists in New England in 1814 to disasterous effects (it led to the eventual dissolution of that party and for the only President to run for reelection unopposed). South Carolina threatened it in 1830 only to have Andrew Jackson browbeat them into submission before it became in open conflict and of course the Civil War and its outcome.
Philosophically, I think there are a bunch of peacable options for a redress of grievances and I think our system allows for them. I also think that any sort of dissolution of the Union would have disasterous long-reaching effects both in our nation and throughout the world. Take Texas as a perfect example (given their petition has the most support so far). They rightly state that they are the 15th largest economy in the world and that they have a balanced state budget. On the surface, that is very much true. However, there are a couple of minor issues with that statement. For example, they balance their budget by using accounting tricks and using federal funding to cover down on programs they won't cover (Medicaid, etc)with their own money. Their state economy is also fairly dependent on off-shore drilling...in federal waters. If they were to secede (and did so legally with a Constitutional Convention, etc), they'd lose those drilling rights and a huge part of their oil industry. They'd also have to start paying for border patrol and customs along their southern border (the Fed gov't pushes a ton of money into that). It'd be lose-lose for Texas and the United States. This is ignoring all the other federal funding they are dependent on for their economy (like the military money that Lackland, Hood, etc bring in). Its simply not a good idea for a whole bunch of reasons.
So after all the "legal" avenues have been exhausted and the government still tells you to F yourself, then what?
Grin and bear it?
Go down with the ship?
You really think dividing up the country would hurt the state more than the Federal government?
Where does all that "military money" come from in the first place? Other than out of thin air, don't they have to TAKE it from the state in order to give it back to them?
The individual comes first, then the state, then the Feds.
What you are advocating is taking a Slim Pickens ride into the middle of Greece. The states NEED to get back some of the control they have given up over the years or it's going to be worse when the collapse comes and they are trying to depend on D.C. for their survival.