The end of America has begun: TX & LA petition to secede

NoSmoke wrote:I agree, the problem is, it is like trying to get along with the environmentalists...they do not make concessions on their part, only yours. They have a single agenda, they make concessions to make you give in, then they go for another throat grab until they get what they wanted in the beginning.

There is a fundamental division in this country: do we remain with the free market system that America is known for, or do we gravitate towards the socialist type of government that exists on the other side of the Atlantic? I see Obama's election as taking us in the latter direction, and since I have been on the other side of the pond, and saw first hand the economic down turn Ireland had a few years ago, I DO NOT want America headed in that direction. I came back from Ireland and said, "If you think America is bad, go over to Ireland and you will think we are doing great."

I do not see these petitions as a true effort at being a separate country from the USA; I see it as people saying "we are so mad we could spit, and we are not going to take this lying down." A true separatist movement...I do not think so.

To be fair, we haven't had a true free market economy since the Great Depression. We've had a mixed economy since that point with several socialistic and capitalist aspects. Farm subsidies come to mind as do price controls for things like milk, etc. These are all socialist practices.

And look at us now ....

Coalfire, I really consider the source in some of those links. The way every state handles the polls leaves a lot to be desired IMO, why do you suppose Florida has had all these problems in the last couple elections but not much before? I can only say about Pa. but all absentee ballots here are sent to the polling places where they belong & are checked against all in person ballots, there were poll watchers even in my area & by the way we had the largest turnout ever. Even then the results for every polling place has to be posted for a week for anyone that wishes to see can.
Many seem to think we are going in the wrong direction now(even when Congress has done nothing to help) we are at least making some progress but you totally ignore what got us here & want to go back & expect a different result. You claim to be such firm believers in the Constitution but only follow what you want & if it doesn't go your way under it then want to secede, hell you'll put more effort into getting your coal heater of choice dialed in just right but want to give up on your country if you don't get your way.

SMITTY wrote:I also believe that those who sign these petitions are now logged in the White House "list" of potential enemies of the state for future use. My name is among them too. Oh well ....

I've got three Ron Paul stickers on my truck, post things about the Constitution all over the internet and was once seen protesting the Bush Administration in D.C.

I'm on several lists.

Davian wrote:To be fair, we haven't had a true free market economy since the Great Depression. We've had a mixed economy since that point with several socialistic and capitalist aspects. Farm subsidies come to mind as do price controls for things like milk, etc. These are all socialist practices.

That is true, so I am not arguing with you here at all, just discussing really. The thing is the amount of them in this country is very limited compared to other countries however. Over in Ireland for instance, farmers are paid for the most mundane things, such as weaning lambs from ewes. Everything they do is subsidized...

My biggest issue with farm subsidies and farm commodity controls are that they are not legitimately set up. For instance, every farmer in the nation who has ever taken a farm subsidy, whether it be for planting corn, or doing a soil erosion control project, gets put on a state list with the owners name, the farm name and the amount and which year it occurred on a list that appears online since this is considered freedom of information since it requires the use of tax monies. Okay, that is fair, but where is the online list of welfare recipients since it is the same thing? Why are farmers branded with a world wide web scarlet letter and welfare recipients aren't? I think it would be enlightening to find out just who in my little town were on the dole...those with new cars, those with high paying jobs, those who cannot afford to pay their rents but can buy cigarettes and pills...

It is interesting too, that the price control for milk in Maine was reviewed by the Dairy Farmers of America a few years ago. They employed a mathematician professor from Cornell University to find out if the formula the Maine Milk Commission uses was correct. He deduced that the formula was incomplete, and that as written, it was not possible to calculate any amount. He did say though that by making some assumptions, and filling in the gaps, as close as he could tell, the Maine Milk Commission was $2 off the proper amount and was screwing the Maine Dairy Farmer by that much. For our farm, $2 per hundred weight of milk, is about $80,000 per month!

For years we have said, let the dairy industry go to a free market system and lets see what the price of milk does. They say we would never survive, but considering how many dairy farmers have gone under in the past decade, I do not agree. (25% have gone bankrupt, 400 dairy farms down to 300 in just a few years time). I think you will find, food is security and they are afraid the price of milk will skyrocket, and what would we do then when kids started drinking soda instead of milk, as is 1 out of 4 kids in this country are obese as is.

There are no easy answers, but I am all for the free market system.

samhill wrote:"Coalfire, I really consider the source in some of those links."

Yeah but if it had been about republicans you would be up in arms.

" Even then the results for every polling place has to be posted for a week for anyone that wishes to see can."

I actually looked at our posting this time, it said how many people voted for Romney and obama, I thought it was going to be a list with voter # on, you know that little stub I tore off the paper when I fed it in the machine, but nooooo, so I do not know if my vote went through as I selected or the machine read it wrong

You claim to be such firm believers in the Constitution but only follow what you want & if it doesn't go your way under it then want to secede

actually I think the idea of seceding is sort of lame, I mean be real look at the occupy wall street crowd, It only took them two weeks of camping out to develop the same mindset of the people they were fighting

You are right though sam, you know what I pm'd you I am getting ready can already feel that hoover heading for my wallet, I should take your attitude sam maybe I should be happy cause one of these new programs is redistributing my wealth , oh wait that can't be cause we weren't going to raise taxes on the middle class



Eric

As I said coalfire every state is different, maybe even several different methods in some states but here I don't even get a stub, no paper just a touch screen & we all know a computer could never be compromised , now if you were to try & throw an election do you think a single vote at a time with risk or a felony conviction would be better than a slight software adjustment that could do hundreds at the very same risk or in the case of the hanging chads a ways back, does every district get their ballot cards from different sources or use different machines? Why wasn't the chad problem statewide instead of in a few select districts?

A couple of easy fixes to make voting more fair:

1. Always, ALWAYS have a paper trail even if using electronic voting machines.

2. Expand early voting to make it easier for every eligible voter to vote. For some states to not have early voting is ridiculous.

Just an old farmers thoughts, but, that early voting crap is just that--For infirm people & military out of the Country, I'm in total support of absentee ballot.

Agree with you on that Fred, not an old farmer but old none the less, I've voted in different elections from a couple of states but always voted. The only time I was out of country I was only old enough to kill for a country that considered me too young to be mature enough to vote, what a crock that was.

freetown fred wrote:Just an old farmers thoughts, but, that early voting crap is just that--For infirm people & military out of the Country, I'm in total support of absentee ballot.

Why does it really matter if someone votes 2 weeks early or even 5 weeks early? The vote isn't any less valid and it eliminates the massive lines & waits that were seen on Election Day. If anything, it would make the process far more efficient and it would encourage people to vote. Voting should be as easy as possible.

#1--the lines were in the sandy affected area's for the most part #2 if those people are to fat & lazy to get to the voting poll places, oh well-- poor babies

Early voting just makes it that much easier for fraudulent voting, IMHO.

So...if someone is going to be out of there town on election day working 8 hours away...they should not have the opportunity to vote?

Well for one thing, VOTER I.D. would solve that problem. That should be passed FEDERALLY .... but of course those that stand to benefit most from NOT implementing it will continue to kick and scream about it .... and the fraud will continue.