Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Ashcat On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Thermoelectric generation (TEG) utilizes heat flow through a device, composed of semiconductor materials, to generate an electric current. It has no moving parts, and relies on heat differential on one surface of the device compared to the other. Most commercially available devices have a heat limit on the "hot" side of the device of 300°C, or 572°F, and a maximum "cold" side heat of 180°C, or 356°F. The greater the difference between a hot site and cold side, the greater the electric energy produced.
Most devices are one or a few inches square, and a fraction of an inch thick. They have very long functional lives and are maintenance free. Although peak power output is not especially high, utilizing a few of them at once may produce meaningful output. Certainly, enough to recharge a cell phone or other battery recharging device, or even operate a 12 V light bulb.

For example, a single 2.2 in.² device that is 572°F on the "hot" side and 86°F on the "cold" side produces nearly 15 W of power. These temperatures suggest that this technology may be ideal for coal stoves. The difficulty may involve adequate cooling of the "cold" side. Most manufacturers recommend applying a heat sink to the cold side, and I'm guessing that a heat sink repurposed from a PC may be a reasonable choice. In my hand fired stove, a great deal of cold air rushes back of the stove to enter the ash pan vents, and I'm trying to figure out a way to direct some of this flow over the heatsink fins.

The 2.2 in.² device costs about $80 purchased singly, or $60 each when purchasing 10 devices. Manufacturers claim that their devices are much cheaper than solar technologies considering power output.

I came across some interesting links today and thought I would post them here:

http://www.customthermoelectric.com/powergen.html
http://www.tegpower.com/
http://www.tegpower.com/pro3.htm
http://www.customthermoelectric.com/pow ... ec_sht.pdf
http://www.customthermoelectric.com/app ... aphite.pdf
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Beeman On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:08 am

Ashcat, very useful information. The Tegpower links you provided show two products that are developed for immediate use. While I have no experience with them and want to learn more, the 12 volt battery charger unit (http://www.tegpower.com/pro8.htm) is ready to roll simply by sitting on top of a coal or wood stove with surface temp of 350 degrees F minimum--I think most stoves would do this. Might make a fine trickle charger during heating season and also could recharge a depleted 12V battery during outages. Similarly, the camping lantern generator (http://www.tegpower.com/pro9.htm) literally has a 5VDC output through a standard USB port, though it would have to be mechancally set up to attach to a stove. Keeps your electronics humming. Would like to know what others think.
Beeman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Ashcat On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:27 am

Thanks for the follow-up, Beeman. It seems as though it would be fairly easy to modify the lantern unit to attach to, or rest near, a coal stove. The USB output device is attractive for charging cell phones, laptops, etc., as is the "trickle" charger.

I first heard about this technology from reading a news story about the use of BioLite stoves in NYC recently, after hurricane Sandy. These use scrap wood/kindling to supply the heat:
http://www.biolitestove.com/campstove/c ... sandy.html
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak


Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: steamup On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:03 am

Ashcat wrote:Thanks for the follow-up, Beeman. It seems as though it would be fairly easy to modify the lantern unit to attach to, or rest near, a coal stove. The USB output device is attractive for charging cell phones, laptops, etc., as is the "trickle" charger.

I first heard about this technology from reading a news story about the use of BioLite stoves in NYC recently, after hurricane Sandy. These use scrap wood/kindling to supply the heat:
http://www.biolitestove.com/campstove/c ... sandy.html



OMG, Just what every 3rd world Yuppie needs. Charge your cell phone while "Roughing it".

The Home stove is a very expensive version of the "Rocket Stove" which is promoted as a fuel saver in third world countries. The main purpose of the rocket stove concept is to have a cheap stove that would heat food with little wood for people that can't afford firewood. Side benefit is less pollution.

I'll plug this device into the same grid as my solar panel and wind turbine.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:07 am

The Peltier Effect has been known for some time. I actually bought a few of the modules to test with. The raw modules are readily available on Ebay or other electronic warehouses, and the price isn't bad.
Heres one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEC1-12710-TEC-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Peltier-Module-CPU-/271050820114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1be34a12
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Interesting play toy. You can build your own "Charger" for $10 or $20. Not much amperage though, unless you gang them together.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:14 pm

What you really want is a long lived heat source. That's the principle of the radioisotope thermoelectric generators. The heat come from a decaying radioisotope and if used in a spacecraft the cold of space. See wikipedia for the history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_fo ... iary_Power

All the units use the dissimilar metal thermocouple junction principle, just the heat and sink thermal sources are different. I worked at JHU/APL all my professional career. During the early and mid-sixty's the SNAP units powered our satellites until one launch failed and sprayed Plutonium-238 over a wide area. The desired power source then changed to solar panels.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Ashcat On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:22 pm

Yanche--APL must be a fascinating place to work! I'm sure you have a few stories you can't talk about.

Continuous heat from a coal stove, for 5-6 months, might be a good enough source to keep a battery charged or have LED light in case of prolonged power outage.

More on the Seebeck/Peltier Effects: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-seebeck-effect.htm
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: davidmcbeth3 On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:21 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftj1ox5UHAU

video of guy using stove-top generator ... runs a small vacuum ... ~4amp?? @ 120 v = ~500W .... not enough to run a refrigerator but a few lights

Worth the $$ ? Nah....use an inverter instead
davidmcbeth3
 
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:03 pm

Gosh.... $80 for a 15 watt device seems expensive to me, especially when you are supplying the fuel for the heat source.

Here's a 60 watt solar panel for $87:



http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Panels-& ... _info.html
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:04 am

Ashcat wrote:Yanche--APL must be a fascinating place to work! I'm sure you have a few stories you can't talk about.






He could then he would have to kill us all.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:26 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Ashcat wrote:Yanche--APL must be a fascinating place to work! I'm sure you have a few stories you can't talk about.

He could then he would have to kill us all.

Actually I don't have to kill you. One of the many classified projects I worked on was de-classified about a year ago. A photo reconnaissance that used film, film that was ejected from the satellite over the Pacific ocean and then caught in a net pulled by an air plane.

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Wikipedia has a fair amout to say about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-9_Hexagon

I often worked in the room pictured in the referenced article. Facility was in Sunnyvale, CA.

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This show the satellite in it's transporter entering US101 near Sunnyvale on it way down to Vandenberg AFB for launch. In the background between the two utility poles is the "blue cube", a windowless building that was the AF satellite control facility. On it's right is Moffett airfield. My office and lab was in a Lockeed building on property that adjoined the airfield.

Much of the KH-9 spacecraft is on public display at the AF museum in Dayton, Ohio. The film was 60 miles long! Here's the camera specs:

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Much to my surprise in comparing our work experiences with a fellow Lions Club member, who worked for the AF but at the CIA, I learned he used film output from the HK-9 in his work. He was an expert on Russian missiles.

I had a unbelievable working career.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Electricity from Coal Stove--No Moving Parts

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:01 pm

Just curious Yanche, would you have ever encountered a Leonard Bowles? He was a valedictorian at Machias HIgh School back in the 40's and went on to MIT and worked in the space programs, satellites, etc. Another girls from Cutler, Me worked at the JPL starting in the 80's. Her last name was Marsha Randall. I know thousands of people worked for these programs, but it is a small world really.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000