Future of coal

Forum rules
ATTN Coal Dealers: To advertise your company you're allowed to start one new topic in "Coal Prices, Coal Quality, Coal Dealer Inquiries and Reviews". You may also respond to other topics started by others where your company has been mentioned and are encouraged to do so. Any other posts just for advertising here or anywhere else on nepacrossroads.com will be considered spam and removed. Repeated violations will result in a permanent ban.

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:57 pm

Northern Maine wrote:As I get older... I feel the same way....but I look at all of the great things that I get to do here...IE, snowmobiling, fishing, hunting and shoot my guns off the back deck :D And I tell myself that its not too bad...however, in 15 years when I retire, I may have a different outlook ;)




We get to do that in rural PA as well. PA is still a pretty good state despite of all the NJ an MA imports. No offense Smitty. :D
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:59 pm

None taken - I understand that 110%. 8-)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:13 pm

Personally I don't fear the coal we use will sky rocket (Anthracite). As a matter of fact as natural gas becomes more available and cheaper thru the hydro fracking thing, I think coal may even come down or at least stay the same. Thats my 2 cents worth.. Maybe I'm a dreamer too :lol: But that is what makes sense to me :idea:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:19 pm

Lightning wrote:Personally I don't fear the coal we use will sky rocket (Anthracite). As a matter of fact as natural gas becomes more available and cheaper thru the hydro fracking thing, I think coal may even come down or at least stay the same. Thats my 2 cents worth.. Maybe I'm a dreamer too :lol: But that is what makes sense to me :idea:


The market dynamics of coal are not the same as the market dynamics for natural gas. If anything the dynamics of coal are far more closely linked to the price of oil and to the demand for steel than to natural gas. Looking at the long term trends, NG can (and in fact is) go(ing) down while oil is (again long term) going up. Steel is also massively going up over the long term.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:24 pm

OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes.. :?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:33 pm

My feeling is their will be coal and the price will remain stable. Even if the economy takes another nose dive steel production will go down as well . I agree supply and demand will hold true. If the coal companies start using Nat gas in their production process that will help stabilize as well as maybe lower the costs. We have a lot of Nat gas it will be used somewhere to replace oil. And in some areas coal.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:03 pm

Lightning wrote:OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes.. :?


There is already virtually no demand for home heating via anthracite coal. The real demand lies with steel. The massively huge steel industry buys by the entire train load on up to the multiple ships load. The few who heat with anthracite buy by the small truck or trailer load. If everyone heating with anthracite stopped tomorrow it probably wouldn't cause a blip on the radar screen to most of the anthracite miners.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:14 pm

lsayre wrote:
Lightning wrote:OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes.. :?


There is already virtually no demand for home heating via anthracite coal. The real demand lies with steel. The massively huge steel industry buys by the entire train load on up to the multiple ships load. The few who heat with anthracite buy by the small truck or trailer load. If everyone heating with anthracite stopped tomorrow it probably wouldn't cause a blip on the radar screen to most of the anthracite miners.



I disagree, but I have been wrong before. :D There is a much higher demand for export but the home heating side is hardly a blip. Its much higher than you think.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:22 pm

Flyer5 wrote: I disagree, but I have been wrong before. :D There is a much higher demand for export but the home heating side is hardly a blip. Its much higher than you think.


This is a case where I would be glad to be wrong.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:00 pm

I think the biggest issues for anthracite prices will continue to be gov't regulations, costs of labor and fuel for delivery.

Northern Maine, your option to help reduce coal costs would be the ability to order in full tractor trailer loads for yourself. Pay the fee and then have coal available for several years of burning. It will not go bad with it sitting there on a pile covered by a tarp. Several Mainers do that already. What some have done is consider this a better investment than any retirement plan. At least you would have your heating costs covered.


In your quest for info on coal burning way up theah in Nawthen Maine, you may want to PM member "Sterling40 man". He's up your way in the County. Been heating with a coal boiler in his garage for a couple of years. He can probably give you some help and advice.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:26 am

We only have enough coal for about 400 years so all you freaks who wring their hands a pee yourself when the wind changes, just relax! I've been burning for 43 years now, and have always gotten TT loads of bulk...some 2300 tons as I recall. The quality is excellent, the service is excellent, the supple is excellent, so stop shaving your legs and Man-UP. How much petro do you think we have left? You should be more worried about that than coal.

Northern Maine has the best of all WORLDS with Center Farms trucking south with Maine Products, and back home with coal and other freight. Coal is 280 a ton that far from the coal fields.....smarten up, this is a heck of a deal. You need to think BIGGER where there is not an Center Farms operation. Someone with a large 'sack' needs to be the go-to guy. The one pick-up guy needs to be 500 pick-ups.

I was in Brattleboro , VT this week and BULK there is $340. Pretty common around here.

Anthracite: It's what's for winter.
Back in the 80's when coal manufactures were falling like the leaves in fall, things were not good, AND now, thanks to a few bright folks the lost 'secret of coal' has made a 'small army of loyalists' open the history books and see that we nearly lost a true natural resource. After WW2 ended, things went berserk for many years and yes, I'm one of those 'boomer generation' guys. Please don't lose that sense of loyalty from our country , despite this past weeks reversal of logic.

When is the last time your lifestyle, or your life been threaten by a Coal person from Pennsylvania? Some others say daily that their mission in life is to kill all the christian world......I really don't like that alternative, nor should you. :idea:
Try to get a bigger picture, not just 3.25 tons you might need yearly. It really is a BIG world out there.

It's Veterans Day, show some respect for the hundreds of thousands who can't even enter this discussion, but would do it all over again, just so we can have the privilege to do so.
Last edited by whistlenut on Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:48 am

What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:14 am

samhill wrote:What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.


Very high carbon content. Also used for water filtration.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: homecomfort On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:32 am

prices for soft coal, used for electric generation have actually come down, in competition with nat gas. anthracite has gone up with diesel cost, like everything else. things are good where I am at in Bucks County, Pa. close enough to the coal fields to go there and pick up coal, reasonable property tax, lots of people with money to spend(customers). life is good. glad I have not had to resort to burning hazardous materials. and oh yeah, we still have a president who will work for the middle class citizens.
homecomfort
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco-Belge,+ Penn Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Normandie, + Chubby

Re: Future of coal

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:08 am

Flyer5 wrote:
samhill wrote:What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.


Very high carbon content. Also used for water filtration.


for steel making 1 ton of anthracite directly replaces 1.5 tons of coke, and anthracite is less expensive right now on this basis.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Visit Lehigh Anthracite