Future of coal

Northern Maine wrote:As I get older... I feel the same way....but I look at all of the great things that I get to do here...IE, snowmobiling, fishing, hunting and shoot my guns off the back deck And I tell myself that its not too bad...however, in 15 years when I retire, I may have a different outlook

We get to do that in rural PA as well. PA is still a pretty good state despite of all the NJ an MA imports. No offense Smitty.

None taken - I understand that 110%.

Personally I don't fear the coal we use will sky rocket (Anthracite). As a matter of fact as natural gas becomes more available and cheaper thru the hydro fracking thing, I think coal may even come down or at least stay the same. Thats my 2 cents worth.. Maybe I'm a dreamer too But that is what makes sense to me

Lightning wrote:Personally I don't fear the coal we use will sky rocket (Anthracite). As a matter of fact as natural gas becomes more available and cheaper thru the hydro fracking thing, I think coal may even come down or at least stay the same. Thats my 2 cents worth.. Maybe I'm a dreamer too But that is what makes sense to me

The market dynamics of coal are not the same as the market dynamics for natural gas. If anything the dynamics of coal are far more closely linked to the price of oil and to the demand for steel than to natural gas. Looking at the long term trends, NG can (and in fact is) go(ing) down while oil is (again long term) going up. Steel is also massively going up over the long term.

OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes..

My feeling is their will be coal and the price will remain stable. Even if the economy takes another nose dive steel production will go down as well . I agree supply and demand will hold true. If the coal companies start using Nat gas in their production process that will help stabilize as well as maybe lower the costs. We have a lot of Nat gas it will be used somewhere to replace oil. And in some areas coal.

Lightning wrote:OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes..

There is already virtually no demand for home heating via anthracite coal. The real demand lies with steel. The massively huge steel industry buys by the entire train load on up to the multiple ships load. The few who heat with anthracite buy by the small truck or trailer load. If everyone heating with anthracite stopped tomorrow it probably wouldn't cause a blip on the radar screen to most of the anthracite miners.

lsayre wrote:

Lightning wrote:OK, so if some people start using natural gas that used to burn coal, it just makes sense to me that the cost of coal would be forced to stay in place. Just due to the laws of supply and demand. I dunno, its all very confusing sometimes..

There is already virtually no demand for home heating via anthracite coal. The real demand lies with steel. The massively huge steel industry buys by the entire train load on up to the multiple ships load. The few who heat with anthracite buy by the small truck or trailer load. If everyone heating with anthracite stopped tomorrow it probably wouldn't cause a blip on the radar screen to most of the anthracite miners.

I disagree, but I have been wrong before. There is a much higher demand for export but the home heating side is hardly a blip. Its much higher than you think.

Flyer5 wrote: I disagree, but I have been wrong before. There is a much higher demand for export but the home heating side is hardly a blip. Its much higher than you think.

This is a case where I would be glad to be wrong.

I think the biggest issues for anthracite prices will continue to be gov't regulations, costs of labor and fuel for delivery.

Northern Maine, your option to help reduce coal costs would be the ability to order in full tractor trailer loads for yourself. Pay the fee and then have coal available for several years of burning. It will not go bad with it sitting there on a pile covered by a tarp. Several Mainers do that already. What some have done is consider this a better investment than any retirement plan. At least you would have your heating costs covered.


In your quest for info on coal burning way up theah in Nawthen Maine, you may want to PM member "Sterling40 man". He's up your way in the County. Been heating with a coal boiler in his garage for a couple of years. He can probably give you some help and advice.




Rick

We only have enough coal for about 400 years so all you freaks who wring their hands a pee yourself when the wind changes, just relax! I've been burning for 43 years now, and have always gotten TT loads of bulk...some 2300 tons as I recall. The quality is excellent, the service is excellent, the supple is excellent, so stop shaving your legs and Man-UP. How much petro do you think we have left? You should be more worried about that than coal.

Northern Maine has the best of all WORLDS with Center Farms trucking south with Maine Products, and back home with coal and other freight. Coal is 280 a ton that far from the coal fields.....smarten up, this is a heck of a deal. You need to think BIGGER where there is not an Center Farms operation. Someone with a large 'sack' needs to be the go-to guy. The one pick-up guy needs to be 500 pick-ups.

I was in Brattleboro , VT this week and BULK there is $340. Pretty common around here.

Anthracite: It's what's for winter.
Back in the 80's when coal manufactures were falling like the leaves in fall, things were not good, AND now, thanks to a few bright folks the lost 'secret of coal' has made a 'small army of loyalists' open the history books and see that we nearly lost a true natural resource. After WW2 ended, things went berserk for many years and yes, I'm one of those 'boomer generation' guys. Please don't lose that sense of loyalty from our country , despite this past weeks reversal of logic.

When is the last time your lifestyle, or your life been threaten by a Coal person from Pennsylvania? Some others say daily that their mission in life is to kill all the christian world......I really don't like that alternative, nor should you.
Try to get a bigger picture, not just 3.25 tons you might need yearly. It really is a BIG world out there.

It's Veterans Day, show some respect for the hundreds of thousands who can't even enter this discussion, but would do it all over again, just so we can have the privilege to do so.

What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.

samhill wrote:What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.

Very high carbon content. Also used for water filtration.

prices for soft coal, used for electric generation have actually come down, in competition with nat gas. anthracite has gone up with diesel cost, like everything else. things are good where I am at in Bucks County, Pa. close enough to the coal fields to go there and pick up coal, reasonable property tax, lots of people with money to spend(customers). life is good. glad I have not had to resort to burning hazardous materials. and oh yeah, we still have a president who will work for the middle class citizens.

Flyer5 wrote:

samhill wrote:What I can't figure out is why so much Ant. is used for steel, I know U.S. Steel uses coke & exports all the excess which is probably more than they use. Blast furnace wise I would think coke would be the cheaper way to go.

Very high carbon content. Also used for water filtration.

for steel making 1 ton of anthracite directly replaces 1.5 tons of coke, and anthracite is less expensive right now on this basis.