Future of coal

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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:47 am

Now you are 'Loggin' boys, there is more than a casual relationship with the steel industry. Goggle reveals a great deal. In this case, it may not be rocket science, but closer too it.

Don't overlook the multitude of other things anthracite is used for either...like water filtration, etc. The only thing 'simple' about coal is many that think it is a just a carbon fuel source......which it surely is.

Try to be one of those that 'learns as they burn' folks. If you aren't a Geology Scientist, you sure can explain the difference between 'White Ash' and 'Red Ash' coal. When I was younger, I remember seeing the 'Blue Coal' bulk and bagged. I thought it was colored.....right! If you traverse pennsylvania, you will see old breakers, mines, open areas from yesteryear and you should wonder what that was all about......
whistlenut
 
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:52 am

homecomfort wrote: we still have a president who will work for the middle class citizens.



Just curious. When will this begin?
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:13 pm

Must be different levels of middle class goin on-- CRAP, according to the THINKERS :roll2: toothy I would fall into a sub, sub poverty level
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:19 pm

For Gods sake hc--I've got friends & family in Bucks County that are RN's & construction & I'll be damned if they spew the same kinda number nonsense that you do. What the hell is that all about--Sorry bud, I just don't think you have a clue about the REAL world out there & that's sad. Open your eyes & loose that me, me, me tunnel vision :(
homecomfort wrote:prices for soft coal, used for electric generation have actually come down, in competition with nat gas. anthracite has gone up with diesel cost, like everything else. things are good where I am at in Bucks County, Pa. close enough to the coal fields to go there and pick up coal, reasonable property tax, lots of people with money to spend(customers). life is good. glad I have not had to resort to burning hazardous materials. and oh yeah, we still have a president who will work for the middle class citizens.
Last edited by freetown fred on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
freetown fred
 
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Rwalker On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm

The crazy part is, hard coal burns clean. Nothing comes from my chimney but heat...

Strange how that is hurting the environment. I guess when they stop allowing us to burn coal, I will help the environment even more with my chainsaw by cutting down every single tree on my property, and I have some HUGE ones, to keep my family warm in the winter.
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:54 pm

lsayre wrote:Looking at the long term trends

As I get older, I worry less about long term trends. Talk about mixed blessings... :lol:
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: DennisH On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:08 pm

While I viscerally loathe Obama and everything he stands for, :mad: I take a more optimistic view of the future of anthracite coal for consumption by those of us who heat with it. As previous posts mentioned, The Bamster and his cronies are going after Bit coal and power plants. If it's cheaper to convert to natural gas for these plants, that signals the death knell for Bit coal in that capacity. However, I think some very enterprising people will remember that useable hydrocarbon fuel can be made from Bit coal (think "coal gas") that will have value. Heck, the WWII German armed forces ran a large percentage of their war machine on coal gas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_synthesis. So I don't think the Bit coal industry will die unless there's an overt move to drive a stake through its heart by The Bamster and EPA. With so many other uses for anthracite. I don't think it's on the EPA radar screen, and hopefully that industry will continue to thrive.

All of the above said, I made it a goal when I started burning anthracite to accumulate a 4 to 5 year supply for just such contingencies. I'm there now, and I will keep myself at that level unless my bride yells at me for having 12 skids of coal on the back part of our farm!! :D :D
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:21 pm

Rwalker wrote:The crazy part is, hard coal burns clean. Nothing comes from my chimney but heat...

You have more than heat going up your chimney. Or did you invent a way to burn coal without using the chemistry of combustion? Burning anything gives heat, CO2, CO and other byproducts. The other varies a lot depending on the fuel. Anthracite produces a lot of CO2. More detail is in the following thread:

what is our efficiency?

Depending on your opinion of carbon dioxide causing global warming, residential burning of Anthracite could be un-desirable or desirable. It's all about comparing Anthracite burning to other ways to produce heat.
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 pm

Can anthracite coal be used in the electric generation plants the same a bituminous coal? My brother seems to think that it could and present price hikes based on that...thoughts?
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: steamup On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:11 pm

Northern Maine wrote:Can anthracite coal be used in the electric generation plants the same a bituminous coal? My brother seems to think that it could and present price hikes based on that...thoughts?


Anthracite is not a direct substitute for Bit. Different burning characteristics require tuning the burners for that specific coal. There are not too many power plants that burn Anthracite. It simply would not be cost effective since anthracite is at least double the cost of Bit. Mostly burn reclaimed coal from culm piles and what junk the breakers sell them.

Read other threads in the Forum. Much involved with the market price of Anthracite - Steel making, diesel prices, etc.
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: Rwalker On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:21 pm

You have more than heat going up your chimney. Or did you invent a way to burn coal without using the chemistry of combustion? Burning anything gives heat, CO2, CO and other byproducts. The other varies a lot depending on the fuel. Anthracite produces a lot of CO2. More detail is in the following thread:


By that I meant I am not pumping black smoke out of my chimney like last year when I burned soft coal. There isnt the smell of black death outside when I burn the hard coal versus the soft.

However, I am on board with others. When they stop us from burning coal, i will burn everything else that burns. That includes tires, old plastic toys, insulation, treated lumber, and what ever else I have that will burn. That should be a lot better on the environment then CO2.

What the hell do I know. I am just a regular dude who works behind a razor wire fence for 8 hours a day and makes sure his family is well taken care of. I dont care to know, nor do I have much interest in knowing, the chemistry in burning coal. Want to talk about the best way to catch a large mouth or lifting weights, I am all in. ;)

I do know the neighbors much prefer hard coal over wood and soft coal. No smell, no mess.
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:51 pm

DennisH wrote:I made it a goal when I started burning anthracite to accumulate a 4 to 5 year supply for just such contingencies. I'm there now, and I will keep myself at that level unless my bride yells at me for having 12 skids of coal on the back part of our farm!! :D :D

Tell her it's hay.
If it's in bags, make sure the bags aren't exposed to the sun (UV), or when you go to move it it might not be in bags any more.
rberq
 
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Tough to fool a farm girl rb. ;)
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: DennisH On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:57 am

Got 'em covered with tarps!! :D :D

Just curious - how long do you think exposed bags will last in the sun before they deteriorate? My guess would be a few years, but not sure. I think I'll conduct an experiment and leave one bag fully exposed to the sun and see how many years it takes for the plastic to break down.
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Re: Future of coal

PostBy: NoSmoke On: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:22 am

I started burning coal in 1994 here in Maine, and back then bulk coal was $150 per ton for nut coal.

Today it is $354 per ton in bulk, so it has gone up quite a bit. But in comparison firewood, propane and oil have gone up a lot more.

My father went with a big pellet boiler, but to be honest with you, I think that was a huge mistake. It is inefficient in my opinion and a 40 pound bag of coal weighs the same as a 40 pound bag of pellets, and when he bought his pellet boiler, that was why he did so...so in case he died, my Mom could still fill the pellet hopper. I feel strongly he should have gone with coal.
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