One of the many ways this country is going down the toilet.

Northern Maine wrote:, but over the past 10 years I have seen in my job alone, layers upon layers of management added when we operated just as well without all those layers.

That hits the nail right on the head. . Like I said in one of my other posts. The public workers pensions cannot stay guaranteed. they need to change that with new people as they are hired. We have to honor the promise with current workers. Members of office should not be able to serve 1 or 2 terms and be able to collect a pension for the rest of their lives. Our elected officials have basically found a way to make the taxpayers their own cash cows. State and local. My property taxes and school taxes have literally doubled in 10 yrs because of mis- management or over management.
Likewise I am not trying to attack you or any one person. I am more against the people that are behind this whole thing getting out of hand. I still have hope that my daughter can enjoy the same country that I enjoyed.

Flyer5 wrote:

Northern Maine wrote:, but over the past 10 years I have seen in my job alone, layers upon layers of management added when we operated just as well without all those layers.

" Members of office should not be able to serve 1 or 2 terms and be able to collect a pension for the rest of their lives. Our elected officials have basically found a way to make the taxpayers their own cash cows. State and local. My property taxes and school taxes have literally doubled in 10 yrs because of mis- management or over management.

THAT"S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! No free ride for ANY politician! I also dont think those in congress should get paid if they aren't getting the job done...we have been on a "continuing resolution" for the budget in my agency for the past 12 years, because congress can't pass a budget!

Flyer5 wrote:Members of office should not be able to serve 1 or 2 terms and be able to collect a pension for the rest of their lives.

This is certainly not true at the Federal level, at least in the Executive Branch. Members of Congress have the same retirement plan as federal employees do. Employees contribute to it, the amount you get in retirement is based on your years of service. The idea that an elected member of Congress simply gets a generous retirement pension with a few terms in office is just wrong. I have a 15+ page document that details their benefits. Just ask and I'll PM it to you. The Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) was phase out in 1983 for new employees/elected officals. Members of Congress first elected in 1984 or later are covered automatically under the Federal Employees’ Retirement System (FERS), unless they decline this coverage. Here's a summary:

Begin Quote:
Congressional pensions, like those of other federal employees, are financed
through a combination of employee and employer contributions. All Members pay
Social Security payroll taxes equal to 6.2% of the Social Security taxable wage base
($97,500 in 2007). Members covered by FERS also pay 1.3% of full salary to the
Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund. Members covered by CSRS Offset
pay 1.8% of the first $97,500 of salary, and 8.0% of salary above this amount, into
the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund.
Under both CSRS and FERS, Members of Congress are eligible for a pension
at age 62 if they have completed at least five years of service. Members are eligible
for a pension at age 50 if they have completed 20 years of service, or at any age after
completing 25 years of service. The amount of the pension depends on years of
service and the average of the highest three years of salary. By law, the starting
amount of a Member’s retirement annuity may not exceed 80% of his or her final
salary.
End Quote

My only question would be--where do the EMPLOYER contributions come from. I don't see anything about medical coverage in there.80% of an already ridiculous salary is quite a chunk of change no matter how one tries to justify it.

I will say that taxing the rich just will not work, I say that from experience because Maine tried it a few years ago.

The yacht building industry was booming in Maine. There are a lot of shipbuilders in this part of Maine with some talented individuals and a good work ethic. I worked for Lyman-Morse which in their size of ship was the premier yacht builder in the world. For a 100 foot vessel, the cost was around 22-25 million dollars...that is a pretty nice yacht.

Anyway the State of Maine was having some hard times and decided to cash in on all their money so they passed a luxury tax on yachts. I think the tax was like 15-20%. Anyway, in 3 weeks time the wealthy boat owners chose to build their boats elsewhere; all construction stopped, the shipyards laid off their workers and the yacht building industry collapsed, ALL IN THREE WEEKS TIME! The impact was so great that the State of Maine reversed its decision, repealed the luxury tax, and within those THREE WEEKS, the industry managed to right itself and continue.

It just boggles the mind that this was tried on a small scale and now people want to do this on a NATIONAL SCALE???

Trust me, we cannot afford to do this. People say they won't leave...not so, let the State of Maine's efforts be a lesson on this!

NoSmoke wrote:I will say that taxing the rich just will not work, I say that from experience because Maine tried it a few years ago.

The yacht building industry was booming in Maine. There are a lot of shipbuilders in this part of Maine with some talented individuals and a good work ethic. I worked for Lyman-Morse which in their size of ship was the premier yacht builder in the world. For a 100 foot vessel, the cost was around 22-25 million dollars...that is a pretty nice yacht.

Anyway the State of Maine was having some hard times and decided to cash in on all their money so they passed a luxury tax on yachts. I think the tax was like 15-20%. Anyway, in 3 weeks time the wealthy boat owners chose to build their boats elsewhere; all construction stopped, the shipyards laid off their workers and the yacht building industry collapsed, ALL IN THREE WEEKS TIME! The impact was so great that the State of Maine reversed its decision, repealed the luxury tax, and within those THREE WEEKS, the industry managed to right itself and continue.

It just boggles the mind that this was tried on a small scale and now people want to do this on a NATIONAL SCALE???

Trust me, we cannot afford to do this. People say they won't leave...not so, let the State of Maine's efforts be a lesson on this!

Well said! However, the belief that welfare for the poor is the biggest contributing factor to our "fiscal issue" is not a full picture...Corporate welfare is as much to blame and both counts need to be addressed!

Northern Maine wrote:

NoSmoke wrote:I will say that taxing the rich just will not work, I say that from experience because Maine tried it a few years ago.

The yacht building industry was booming in Maine. There are a lot of shipbuilders in this part of Maine with some talented individuals and a good work ethic. I worked for Lyman-Morse which in their size of ship was the premier yacht builder in the world. For a 100 foot vessel, the cost was around 22-25 million dollars...that is a pretty nice yacht.

Anyway the State of Maine was having some hard times and decided to cash in on all their money so they passed a luxury tax on yachts. I think the tax was like 15-20%. Anyway, in 3 weeks time the wealthy boat owners chose to build their boats elsewhere; all construction stopped, the shipyards laid off their workers and the yacht building industry collapsed, ALL IN THREE WEEKS TIME! The impact was so great that the State of Maine reversed its decision, repealed the luxury tax, and within those THREE WEEKS, the industry managed to right itself and continue.

It just boggles the mind that this was tried on a small scale and now people want to do this on a NATIONAL SCALE???

Trust me, we cannot afford to do this. People say they won't leave...not so, let the State of Maine's efforts be a lesson on this!

Well said! However, the belief that welfare for the poor is the biggest contributing factor to our "fiscal issue" is not a full picture...Corporate welfare is as much to blame and both counts need to be addressed!

Agreed there, It is like romney said about PBS everything needs to be looked at. welfare is not the biggest contributior, but if you take a bunch of smaller items and add them up it becomes alot.
One thing I beleive is changing welfare so people who need it can get it, and end programs like where the clown in this clip got money for rent. You could also end corporate welfare by closing tax loop holes/ending subsidies, but this mindless chanting TAX the Rich, Tax the Rich, Tax the Rich will hurt the middle class the most. Close loopholes but do not raise taxes.



Eric

"Agreed there, It is like romney said about PBS everything needs to be looked at. welfare is not the biggest contributior, but if you take a bunch of smaller items and add them up it becomes alot.
One thing I beleive is changing welfare so people who need it can get it, and end programs like where the clown in this clip got money for rent. You could also end corporate welfare by closing tax loop holes/ending subsidies, but this mindless chanting TAX the Rich, Tax the Rich, Tax the Rich will hurt the middle class the most. Close loopholes but do not raise taxes."

In the past 30 years of leadership...not one of them has figured this out!

Northern Maine wrote:"Agreed there, It is like romney said about PBS everything needs to be looked at. welfare is not the biggest contributior, but if you take a bunch of smaller items and add them up it becomes alot.
One thing I beleive is changing welfare so people who need it can get it, and end programs like where the clown in this clip got money for rent. You could also end corporate welfare by closing tax loop holes/ending subsidies, but this mindless chanting TAX the Rich, Tax the Rich, Tax the Rich will hurt the middle class the most. Close loopholes but do not raise taxes."

In the past 30 years of leadership...not one of them has figured this out!

With the eye rolling at the end just checking, are you agreeing with me or not? Its tough to tell through internet smileys




Eric

Being the smiley king--I'll take a shot in the dark & say we are both agreeing strongly with what you posted--the eye roll was directed toward the dumb ass self absorbed politicians over the past 30 + years

Coalfire wrote:

samhill wrote:
quote]



Ecspecially when he says he wants to spread the wealth, take from me to give to the guy in the clip





Eric

Umm, I don't think he said he was "spreading the wealth" from YOU to the guy in the clip unless you happen to be earning more the $250k a year and I'd hesitate to say that the majority of us on this site fall into that catagory (I sure don't) that "might " be taxed at the Pre-Bush (Clinton) tax era rates. Matter of fact if someone wanted to pay me $250k or more I'll be happy to chip in at a higher rate

You & me both on that one SZ--$250,000.00 is the new middle class today???? I musta missed something while all that was happening

SteveZee wrote:

Coalfire wrote:

samhill wrote:
quote]



Ecspecially when he says he wants to spread the wealth, take from me to give to the guy in the clip





Eric

Umm, I don't think he said he was "spreading the wealth" from YOU to the guy in the clip unless you happen to be earning more the $250k a year and I'd hesitate to say that the majority of us on this site fall into that catagory (I sure don't) that "might " be taxed at the Pre-Bush (Clinton) tax era rates. Matter of fact if someone wanted to pay me $250k or more I'll be happy to chip in at a higher rate

Steve I wish I fell in the 250K catagory , alot of people work for individuals who make this amount or more. When the tax rate goes up on these people, they are going to pass there loss on to there workers, so in turn it will be taking money from me


Eric

This is the thing; I am not sure we can trust this administration to know just who is rich, who is not, and who should qualify or not.

As many of you know, I am a shipbuilder/farmer with extensive family here in Maine who has 3 dairy farms in the family. Trust me guys (and gals), I know there are farms that are taking advantage of the USDA and the subsidy system...I know that...but when Obama makes a declaration that any farm that makes over 1 million dollars a year in gross sales is a Mega-Farm and going to be shut down from government subsidies, it makes you wonder if anyone is qualified at the helm.

I do not know of any dairy farm in the State of Maine that does not make over a million in sales, but I bet everyone of them is in the red in the profit column. Yes the price of milk went up $4 per cwt over the last few months, but grain has quadrupled, bedding doubled and fuel has been up until a few days ago. When I graduated in 1992, there was 400 dairy farms in Maine. Five years ago it went down below 300, today there is less than 200 left...

When most Presidential Administrations have 60% of the cabinet as businessmen, and this President only has 6% of his cabinet as businessmen, you really have to question if they even know a sheep from a cow.

[quote="NoSmoke"]This is the thing; I am not sure we can trust this administration to know just who is rich, who is not, and who should qualify or not."

Can any of us trust that any of the administrations over the past 30 years has done the right thing for this country? It has taken that long for this country to get where it is at fiscally. My gramp always said that prior planning prevents piss poor performance....to me there has not been any planning fiscally since 1982.