Getting ready for the New Normal

Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:37 am

rberq wrote:
lowfog01 wrote:You are so full of bull and along with Fred and the rest of you socialists …

Ah, yes! An eloquent and well-reasoned response. Now I remember why I resolved not to argue with you any more.

lowfog01 wrote:Yours and every other family in America's take home pay is going down by 13% come the first of the year

I’d like to think Congress won’t let that happen, though I have to admit they have given me few reasons to trust in their wisdom. I am curious where you get the 13% -- my take-home pay went up slightly when the Bush tax cuts took effect, but nothing like that! So even if the 2% payroll tax cut it is revoked, and the Bush cuts are revoked, I estimate at most a 2.5% impact. Being a full-of-bull socialist, I am willing to absorb that if necessary. The country might be better off if the cuts had never taken effect; maybe we could have paid for War Criminal Bush's Iraq war instead of putting it on the credit card.


Good post Bob. I was trying to figure Lisa's 13% myself and having a problem. I think it's a bit of that Karl Rove math. ;)
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:40 am

KLook wrote:Nice rant Mozz, but I only disagree with one point. The poor are not getting poorer. What they call poor is increasing. The poor today have more then we had when we were kids.

Kevin

No doubt about that Kevin. Up here in our county, the majority of us would have been considered (and allot still are) poor folks. The only thing is, no one ever told us, toothy so we just got on with our poor old lives. ;)
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:43 am

the most evident one for me is that U.S. citizens desire to pay a low price for the products we purchase as a whole.


Shows you have no idea of capitalism, are you a Sam fan?
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:46 am

Padre, lighten up, I was being supportive of the move you made, as I thought I read the benefits you posted as far as heating, & just over-all maintenance with the smaller house & with your wifes health issues--sorry you took it any other way. There surely wasn't any deep seated negative connotation there in my post. I'm hoping your congregation/you are taking advantage of the Holy tax exemption with your housing.
Last edited by freetown fred on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: coalkirk On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:48 am

The new normal is the center piece of obamas plan to redistribute poverty.
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:01 am

Pastor, I thought that AIG was an independent Insurance Carrier raising rates as they all are because they can before HC fully kicks in as allowed in the free enterprise system & that leway was the best their lobbyist could get. Do you really think that rates would not have been going up all along as they always have if not for the HC Law? They might be going up faster because their time is running out but they have always been going up & it was always unregulated as far as I know.
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:07 am

coalnewbie wrote:
the most evident one for me is that U.S. citizens desire to pay a low price for the products we purchase as a whole.


Shows you have no idea of capitalism, are you a Sam fan?


We have not had true Capitalism in this country since the 1920's...Welfare Capitalism is and has been in full swing! I am not a SAM fan...sorry!
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:23 am

freetown fred wrote: I'm hoping your congregation is taking advantage of the Holy tax exemption with your housing.


You just can't help yourself can you Fred? You were doing pretty good and then you had to do the backhand side slap. Why do you feel that you have to take the jabs and shots to what could be a reasonable discussion?

I guess your talking about a ministers housing allowance allowed by IRS regulations when you say "Holy tax exemption?" Read the tax code Fred. The congregation has no say so in the percentage of what I am paid that gets applied to a housing exemption. I determine that percentage. I am the one that chooses to apply or not apply the tax code to what I am payed when I pay my taxes; just like everyone else.

There are zero advantages or disadvantages to the congregation regarding ministerial housing allowances. That is 100% between me and the IRS. If you don't like the exemptions allowed by the IRS, talking about them won't change them. Vote in people who promise to change them. We are Americans that have a representative system of government that promulgates the laws and the enforcement. Don't like the laws? Vote in people who will change them.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars.

Pastor Larry
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:58 am

samhill wrote:Pastor, I thought that AIG was an independent Insurance Carrier raising rates as they all are because they can before HC fully kicks in as allowed in the free enterprise system & that leway was the best their lobbyist could get. Do you really think that rates would not have been going up all along as they always have if not for the HC Law? They might be going up faster because their time is running out but they have always been going up & it was always unregulated as far as I know.


Very good question samhill......I worked for an insurance company for 27 years. Make no mistake, they are definitely for profit corporations. They are a business like any other business. They are not there for your benefit despite what the ads say. They are there to make a profit. End of story...... I sat on committees that worked up premium increase requests.

Contrary to popular belief insurance companies ARE regulated by the insurance commissioners and committees in all the states. Under normal circumstances the company submits their request for rate increases to the insurance commissioners along with the proof that they NEED the rate increase to remain profitable and continue to pay a reasonable rate of return to their stock holders. The insurance commissions in each state approve\disapprove\ and negotiate premium increases. Under normal circumstances market conditions dictate what the premiums were going to settle at. This is why the cost for the very same coverage will vary from state to state.

When AIG was set to go belly up because of their operational practices that came home to roost, the government stepped in and declared they were to big to fail. They gave them gov. money and assumed control of the company taking control away from the individual states under federal mandate. The states signed off on it. The market was not allowed to function as it normally would and take the hit if AIG collapsed. Would it have been bad? It would have been really bad but nothing that hasn't happened before. This time however the federal government decided they were going to step in and take over. The feds had taken over the position and function of the insurance commissioners and decided that in order to get their bailout money back, premiums would be allowed to rise to what ever they wanted. They didn't have to worry about the market selfcorrecting. They had the fed money to fall back on and fall back on it they did big time.

That is what we are dealing with. We are dealing with a new government idea that we are too stupid to take care of ourselves and they are going to step in and take over and decide how we are going to live. That is not the America that I was born and raised in. It is the America that the majority asked for and continue to ask for. In our system of government you get what you ask for if you can get your numbers up enough. That's the way the American system works. I'm not slamming it. I chose to live in our country and play by the lawful rules. I still believe that this is the best country in the world.

Currently I am on the opposite side of the majority. I do not want the government telling me how I am supposed to live and what I do with the money I work for. I believe I am smart enough to figure that out for myself.

Pastor Larry
blrman07
 
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:28 am

Is it just a persecution complex or over sensitivity. Our local Padre here in Freetown has a small following & funds are always an issue. He told me that he had applied for the exemption & fell within the realm of eligability. It has helped immensly in keeping the Church going. Back handed side slap, jabs, shots OK If that's what you read into my post :( --oh well. Glad you OK'd my post up untill that point :roll: As for my reading the tax code concerning the Holy exemption--no need, I know I'm not eligable. Here's a question for you, why would one post on a public forum & then get all bent out of shape when someone responds apparently not up to their standards or expectations? Just curious.
blrman07 wrote:
freetown fred wrote: I'm hoping your congregation is taking advantage of the Holy tax exemption with your housing.


You just can't help yourself can you Fred? You were doing pretty good and then you had to do the backhand side slap. Why do you feel that you have to take the jabs and shots to what could be a reasonable discussion?

I guess your talking about a ministers housing allowance allowed by IRS regulations when you say "Holy tax exemption?" Read the tax code Fred. The congregation has no say so in the percentage of what I am paid that gets applied to a housing exemption. I determine that percentage. I am the one that chooses to apply or not apply the tax code to what I am payed when I pay my taxes; just like everyone else.

There are zero advantages or disadvantages to the congregation regarding ministerial housing allowances. That is 100% between me and the IRS. If you don't like the exemptions allowed by the IRS, talking about them won't change them. Vote in people who promise to change them. We are Americans that have a representative system of government that promulgates the laws and the enforcement. Don't like the laws? Vote in people who will change them.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars.

Pastor Larry
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:40 am

blrman07 wrote:
samhill wrote:Pastor, I thought that AIG was an independent Insurance Carrier raising rates as they all are because they can before HC fully kicks in as allowed in the free enterprise system & that leway was the best their lobbyist could get. Do you really think that rates would not have been going up all along as they always have if not for the HC Law? They might be going up faster because their time is running out but they have always been going up & it was always unregulated as far as I know.


Very good question samhill......I worked for an insurance company for 27 years. Make no mistake, they are definitely for profit corporations. They are a business like any other business. They are not there for your benefit despite what the ads say. They are there to make a profit. End of story...... I sat on committees that worked up premium increase requests.

Contrary to popular belief insurance companies ARE regulated by the insurance commissioners and committees in all the states. Under normal circumstances the company submits their request for rate increases to the insurance commissioners along with the proof that they NEED the rate increase to remain profitable and continue to pay a reasonable rate of return to their stock holders. The insurance commissions in each state approve\disapprove\ and negotiate premium increases. Under normal circumstances market conditions dictate what the premiums were going to settle at. This is why the cost for the very same coverage will vary from state to state.............................................

Pastor Larry



Therein lies the whole stinking problem. And NO insurance companies are NOT LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS !!!!!!!
Name me another business where you send them money BEFORE you even get to see what you thought you purchased.

Insurance companies are allowed to run amuck without any real oversight.

The last good insurance commissioner we had in PA was Herb Denenberg (sp?) He was the last one to look out for individual consumers. Since then PA has had one after the other commissioner that has been nothing but a puppet to the insurance companies. Their sole function is to make sure that the insurance companies remain PROFITABLE..............

The insurance industry has the largest lobby of any legislature both statewide and federally.

Funny how insurance commissioners usually come from the insurance industry and upon retiring as commissioners, immediately go back to the same insurance industry. Now do you think that they would do anything against an insurer when they expect to go back there for a job ??

As my trade group representatives leave a meeting with the insurance commissioner complaining about insurer practices, the insurance lobbyist is entering the office to downplay our concerns. We have documented evidence of insurer malfeasance but nothing gets done.

Want to straighten out this whole mess ??? Start with the insurance industry !!!!!

Interested in some reading.....google the 1963 Consent Decree.




Rick
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:42 am

freetown fred wrote:Lisa, I think I already mentioned this, but, you're taking all this scarily personal when for myself it was not meant to be. You're the one that posted the frills that you were having to cut back on as examples. I believe that's what people are/were responding to. If, as you state in THIS post,you're not living above your means, why worry? Why cut back anything? Again, I don't buy all your projected gloom & doom. Lets see--socialists, full of bull, etc. "it's my money, I worked for it and I get the right to keep as much of it as I can and spend it how I want. You have a problem with that because I seem to more then you do Oh no, she can afford $10 a month for a personal 800 number, call the cops! Tough toenail" that's kinda confusing. I really don't care how you spend your money. My father had a saying he would use on occasion--"just remember, when when ya got that finger pointed at someone, ya got 3 pointin back at yourself--time to find a mirror"


Fred, look again. I can only find postings where you and Bob had a problem with how I spend my money and what extras I have decided to cut back on. I find it strange the you find fault with my coloring my hair and having an 800 number - you find that to be "living behind my means" but nothing is said about all the guys who posted and are running around on motor bikes or fishing boats. Why is that? If someone is counting and claiming someone else is living over their means, it seems to me if those costly items aren't used for business, start there. If not, why is anything I want to do with MY money that you don't agree with mean I'm living beyond my means. For not carrying about how I spend my money you sure keep bringing it up.

As for why I'm cutting back at all, that's because I'm not stupid. Are you? I never thought that for a minute; you have shared too many of your personal successes to support that idea. Not being stupid is how I became financially secure in the first place. I can see the writing on the wall and I know that as bad as things are now, it's going to get worse real fast. I'm not selling any projected gloom and doom - I'm acting on facts and as I always say facts are facts because they can be proven over and over again. The problem this country faces is a math problem. We are spending more then we have and we don't have an endless bucket. See it, accept it or don't. Me, I'm preparing for the new normal. Lisa
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:59 am

the most evident one for me is that U.S. citizens desire to pay a low price for the products we purchase as a whole.


If it is only US citizens then explain the hordes of Canadians that go so far as to charter buses to shop in Maine. And I hear is is the same at all border crossings.

Kevin
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:19 pm

KLook wrote:
the most evident one for me is that U.S. citizens desire to pay a low price for the products we purchase as a whole.


If it is only US citizens then explain the hordes of Canadians that go so far as to charter buses to shop in Maine. And I hear is is the same at all border crossings.

Kevin


I think he meant that we do (and expect to) pay relatively low prices for the for most products. Thus the hoards wanting to take advantage of that. I travel quite a bit internationally and I can tell you we have it pretty good here. Lisa might think it's all gone to h#$@ in a hand basket and getting worse but we're on easy street in comparison to just about anywhere else on this planet. Some people have no clue what the restoftheworldistan is like.
Last edited by SteveZee on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting ready for the New Normal

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:20 pm

“To be thrown upon one's own resources, is to be cast into the very lap of fortune; for our faculties then undergo a development and display an energy of which they were previously unsusceptible.”
—Benjamin Franklin


............................................... puke..... honk.
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