Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Pmk13 On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:15 am

Loaner motor arrived. Will be swapping motors Monday after I shut down the boiler.
Pmk13
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:33 am

Pmk13 wrote:Loaner motor arrived. Will be swapping motors Monday after I shut down the boiler.


If its the motor,I'd demand AHS to send a brand new motor,then send them both the loaner and bad motor back and not bother fixing it.How much money did you spend on a "NEW BOILER" :mad:
Last edited by Dennis on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:04 am

I quietly sit back and watch this episode unfold.......Steamup is absolutely correct...3 years out of the direct drive motor is a very good lifespan. The real trick is being able to get the fan blade off the shaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The very position of the motor and the heat it gets from the shaft being in the heated exhaust stream guarantees you will have a failed front end bearing in a short time. I have had 3 fail, in 3 years or less.
My solution was to replace the direct drive with the remote motor and belt drive. Ask the boys if that is an avenue you could explore. I'm not telling you that is a good path; it is an EXCELLENT path.
Noise and vibration are eliminated, and trust me, this will make you smile also.

Like the Fram Guy says: Pay me now or pay me later. I have told AHS that option should have been eliminated years ago, but it is a cost thing. Some folks look at the bottom line and do not know why it is justified to spend a few hundred more to have NO aggravation. Believe it or not, that particular motor is the very same one Jacuzzi uses to power the pump on hot tubs, etc. It is not inexpensive, and that is why I recommend going to the indirect motor, grease-able bearings and a smooth, quiet, belt drive. The factory will work with you, I'm sure. Tell them to email me or call me if they have any questions! I HAVE been there three times, and won't go again. :!:
Do it once, do it right, and demand satisfaction. :idea: :!:

Thousands of potential customers read this forum for advice, and current owners ask pertinent questions all the time. After the 'Puff Back' saga, it's time to step up to the plate!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Pmk13 On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 pm

Installed the loaner motor but noise still remains. Took a video and sent it to ahs.
Pmk13
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 pm

Pmk13 wrote:Installed the loaner motor but noise still remains. Took a video and sent it to ahs.


Might be the noise is in the fan itself, internal to boiler. If the AHS fan looks anything like the AA fan...it can become loose between the hub and the blade assembly.

Where's that Quality Control AHS?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Pmk13 On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:30 am

Al welds on the fan look ok... Ran quietly for about a week
Pmk13
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: steamup On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:44 am

how did you make out?

Does AHS put a heat shield on the S130? They put one on the Woodgun and they are difficult to get off without damage.

If it was a motor bearing, you cannot blame AHS for a bad OEM motor. Things do happen, that is why there are warrenty's.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:00 pm

But you can blame AHS for not specifying a bearing suitable for the application. It's unreasonable to expect a off the shelf motor to have bearings that will have long life. It's another example of marketing (low selling price) wining over sound engineering.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Bob On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:13 pm

Yanche wrote:But you can blame AHS for not specifying a bearing suitable for the application. It's unreasonable to expect a off the shelf motor to have bearings that will have long life. It's another example of marketing (low selling price) wining over sound engineering.


I have the direct drive setup and am in my sixth year on the original motor/bearing.

My understanding is that AHS replaces the bearing closest to the fan (heat source) with a bearing with special high temperature grease. I bought a spare when I pick up my boiler and still have it sitting on the shelf.

The designator on the high temp grease bearing is (NTN) 6203LLUAC4 AND 6203LLUAC4/9B
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Pmk13 On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:24 pm

My motor doesn't have a lube point on the motor brgs. They are sealed.
Pmk13
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:53 pm

Pmk13 wrote:Al welds on the fan look ok... Ran quietly for about a week


Oh, then you have removed the fan from the heat chamber for inspection?

The fan hub is welded to the fan?

If the motor doesn't make the noise...it must be something with the fan...hmmm?

Did you happen to notice if the fan spins true while you had it out...no slight wobble?

What is the clearance space between rotating fan and the face of the heating chamber?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:56 pm

Bob wrote:
Yanche wrote:But you can blame AHS for not specifying a bearing suitable for the application. It's unreasonable to expect a off the shelf motor to have bearings that will have long life. It's another example of marketing (low selling price) wining over sound engineering.


I have the direct drive setup and am in my sixth year on the original motor/bearing.

My understanding is that AHS replaces the bearing closest to the fan (heat source) with a bearing with special high temperature grease. I bought a spare when I pick up my boiler and still have it sitting on the shelf.

The designator on the high temp grease bearing is (NTN) 6203LLUAC4 AND 6203LLUAC4/9B

The manufacture's spec sheet for the bearing is here:

http://www.ntnamerica.com/products/bear ... BSRD&ctc=B

I don't see anything special to indicate it's a high temperature grease. Of course it could have been special ordered with high temp grease or even re-greased by AHS. While I'm not a bearing specialist even a cursory look through the NTN would lead a designer to chose a different bearing, something from their "long life" bearing line.

More diagnosis is needed to determine Pmk 13's problem. OR you can just throw parts at it. :-)
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:28 pm

Yanche wrote:I don't see anything special to indicate it's a high temperature grease.


Here is a link to the grease used in the bearing: http://www.mobil.com/Colombia-English/L ... se_28.aspx

Note the synthetic oil and clay based thickener, it is intended for high temperature applications. They also make the following comment in the grease data sheet:

The recommended operating temperature range is -55º to 180ºC with appropriate relubrication intervals.

I'm not sure how much heat that bearing sees, but it seems like not having a grease zerk is a bad idea.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Bob On: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:31 pm

Yanche wrote:
Bob wrote:
Yanche wrote:But you can blame AHS for not specifying a bearing suitable for the application. It's unreasonable to expect a off the shelf motor to have bearings that will have long life. It's another example of marketing (low selling price) wining over sound engineering.


I have the direct drive setup and am in my sixth year on the original motor/bearing.

My understanding is that AHS replaces the bearing closest to the fan (heat source) with a bearing with special high temperature grease. I bought a spare when I pick up my boiler and still have it sitting on the shelf.

The designator on the high temp grease bearing is (NTN) 6203LLUAC4 AND 6203LLUAC4/9B

The manufacture's spec sheet for the bearing is here:

http://www.ntnamerica.com/products/bear ... BSRD&ctc=B

I don't see anything special to indicate it's a high temperature grease. Of course it could have been special ordered with high temp grease or even re-greased by AHS. While I'm not a bearing specialist even a cursory look through the NTN would lead a designer to chose a different bearing, something from their "long life" bearing line.

More diagnosis is needed to determine Pmk 13's problem. OR you can just throw parts at it. :-)


Yanche--Please note that the description of the bearing includes "Mobil 28, MIL-G". If you do a seach for that grease you will find that it is a synthetic aviation grease that "lubricates effectively rolling element bearings under conditions of high speeds and temperatures."
"Mobilgrease 28 is also recommended for industrial lubrication, including sealed or repackable ball and roller bearings wherever extreme temperature conditions, high speeds, or water washing resistance are factors. Typical industrial applications include conveyor bearings, small alternator bearings operating at temperatures near 177ºC (350ºF), high-speed miniature ball bearings, and bearing applications where oscillatory motion, and vibration create problems. "
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Increasing noise coming from new s130 draft motor

PostBy: Pmk13 On: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:19 pm

I swapped the motors and they was no change. Sent a video to ahs and they gave me a few suggestions. From insuring all fasteners are tight, check bx for vibrations and recenter the dive. I also will be ordering a new insulation peice, since mine is showing wear from dismantling. Darren from ahs has been responsive and helpful.
Pmk13
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130